tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-67352214828602614822024-02-20T12:19:16.758-08:00Vietnam Discussions - Morgan Park High SchoolMorgan Park Highhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13408150596764440012noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-75432824688725453652010-01-26T19:52:00.002-08:002023-05-08T03:07:09.070-07:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam, The Cold War, Iraq, Afghanistan</span></span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Discussions among Morgan Park </span></span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">High School Alumnae</span></span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Chicago, Illinois</span></span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Written in 2002-2010, During the War on Terror. </span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We were exactly the right age to enjoy participating in or protesting the Vietnam War. Our parents had survived the depression and World War II. We got Vietnam, and our children got the War on Terrorism.</span></span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The following was extracted from a series of emails produced by our classmates.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We would appreciate the stories of anyone, whether you opposed the war, fought in it, went to Canada, jail, etc. And women please contribute - you did not get drafted, but you also went through tough times. Or if you know of anyone who had an interesting story, please ask them to email it to: </span></span></span></span><br />
<u><span style="color: blue;"><span style="color: blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br />
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span><u><span style="color: blue;"><span style="color: blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="mailto:Craighullinger@gmail.com%20\%20_blank">morganparkhigh@gmail.com</a></span></span></span></span></u><br />
<u><span style="color: blue;"><span style="color: blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></u><br />
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<u><span style="color: blue;"><span style="color: blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">or call Craig at 309 634 5557.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></u></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Your choice if you want not to be identified in the story - let us know and we will just use your first name. Or use your real name, in case this becomes a best seller. <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">If you have already contributed, please feel free to update and expand your contribution. Or if you know of someone from MPHS or the “Hood” who had an interesting experience, please let us know how to contact them.</span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">There is an old curse that says "May you live in interesting times". The late 60's and early 70's were certainly that.</span></span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">So if you are interested in contributing, please send an email to this blog or email or call me. </span></span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black;"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks</span></span></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Louise S</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I disagreed with the war back then and tried to persuade many to be objectors or leave the country for a time. I am terrified because I truly believe our government uses war as an economic tool as well as for population control. If you look at the statistics you will see by race and age how many died "for us". I hated it then and I hate it still. I would hope if there is another war not on American ground you would think long and hard and talk with your children and grandchildren before you let them blithely go off to fight for "freedom and the good old USA"</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I married a vet while the war was still going on and had to watch as PTSD ate us up. No one knew what it was yet. He dug fox holes in the driveway and booby trapped the house. Sometimes he thought I was cong. We battled his alcoholism and Vietnam daily.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We hurt and destroyed many families on BOTH sides during that war. I took a foster son off the first flight that came to this country from the camps. He no longer had a family. I did my best to help him get over the things that war did to him and think I succeeded somewhat. But NOTHING ever erases what war does to us. Not for the ones that go or the ones that stay home. Or for the children.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Maybe too many of us listened to our fathers war stories of WW2 .. the funny little incidents they chose to tell. We are doing the same about Vietnam.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Lets stop and tell the truth for once. War is Hell on everyone.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Louise, I admire you for taking the responsibility and making a commitment which has contributed to healing the wounds of that war. You have made a difference in this world.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Is your husband better? Have you ever heard of Figley's research on PTSD in Vietnam vets? Or Shapiro's work with EMDR? Also some of the Energy Psychology methods for dealing with trauma?</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Louise S</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I don't know where my first husband is. I was 20 years old and very scared and his family said they would get him the help he needed if I divorced him. I loved him so much but was at the end of my physical and mental strength by then. So I finally gave in and did as they wished. I never stopped loving the man that I married but I understand that that man was a result of PTSD himself and I never really knew the real person. That came after years of struggling with my conscious.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I married another man and thats when I started taking foster children. I had three boys. One Deaf, one Vietnamese and one the son of a policeman. I also had a biological child, a daughter that was born deaf. My boys are all grown and married now and my daughter graduated from college in San Marcos Texas. She currently lives in Austin and is a graphic designer.</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our thanks to all of our fallen High School Comrades</span></span></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPzKH33YMxAzJYHgNI8aLTCAi0A9LInmTf7vMccfTscNol-mhI8yg8TERVhpm2G-Y_bF545OfXsnAoA56UijEJDnoebcG_pobfo8_H6SLZ0DrAOtIRn7QUZDl6fzsTfeWeXGztlyGlxAk/s1600-h/vietnam+wall.jpg" style="clear: right; color: #5588aa; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="225" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPzKH33YMxAzJYHgNI8aLTCAi0A9LInmTf7vMccfTscNol-mhI8yg8TERVhpm2G-Y_bF545OfXsnAoA56UijEJDnoebcG_pobfo8_H6SLZ0DrAOtIRn7QUZDl6fzsTfeWeXGztlyGlxAk/s320/vietnam+wall.jpg" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; border-width: initial;" width="320" /></span></span></a><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We know of ten of our classmates who died in Vietnam. Morgan Park High School was a big City of Chicago High School.There surely are more who died that we do not know about.</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Morgan Park Alumni </span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1962-1968 </span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">on the Vietnam Memorial Wall</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Larry Dart</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And thanks to all the ones we don't know about:</span></span></div>
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<a href="http://empehiheroes.blogspot.com/" style="text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: #2b00fe;">http://empehiheroes.blogspot.com/</span></span></span></a><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://det4.blogspot.com/2010/02/vietnam-virtual-wall.html" style="color: #5588aa; text-decoration: none;">Vietnam - The Virtual Wall</a></span></span></h3>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Remembering our Friends who gave all in the War. Click on Find a Name to find your comrade.</span></span></span><br />
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<tr><td onmouseout="hideMenu('indexL1Menu1');" onmouseover="showMenu('indexL1Menu1'); hideMenu('indexL1Menu2');" style="vertical-align: top; width: 310px;"><img alt="" height="32" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/pics/Nav_IndexFindA.gif" title="Find A Name" width="310" /></td><td onmouseout="hideMenu('indexL1Menu2');" onmouseover="showMenu('indexL1Menu2'); hideMenu('indexL1Menu1'); " style="vertical-align: top; width: 310px;"><img alt="" height="32" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/pics/Nav_IndexTVWA.gif" title="The Virtual Wall®" width="310" /><br />
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<tr><td align="left">The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC honors the fallen of the Vietnam War. Relatives and friends leave letters, poems, and photographs there and on this web site named The Virtual Wall ®. We bring the Vietnam Veterans Memorial to your home.</td></tr>
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<tr><td align="left" rowspan="3" valign="top" width="190"><b><span face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">The Memorial Pages:<br />
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<img alt="" height="12" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/pics/d.gif" width="8" /> <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/about.htm" style="color: #5588aa; text-decoration: none;">About Us</a><br />
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<img alt="" height="12" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/pics/d.gif" width="8" /> <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/linksvw.htm" style="color: #5588aa; text-decoration: none;">Links</a> <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/docs/faqs.htm" style="color: #5588aa; text-decoration: none;">FAQs</a></span></b></td><td align="center" background="http://www.virtualwall.org/bground/wallpic00.jpg" height="200" valign="top" width="390"><br />
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<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/iPhot000.htm" style="color: #5588aa; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="" border="2" height="90" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/zf/f069.jpg" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-style: none; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-top-width: 0px; border-width: initial;" title="This photo chosen at random from the Faces of Freedom index, click for the index" width="64" /></a><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sunrise Vietnam</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I saw on a recent message from the reunion group that Alfred McNabb had been identified as deceased. McNabb and I went through Marine Corps boot camp together in the summer of '67. He went directly to Vietnam after completing ITR (Infantry Training)arriving on Dec. 17, 1967. He was killed by small arms fire on Feb. 2, 1968. 10% of the guys I went through boot camp with were killed in Vietnam, and if the casualty statistics are right, 60% were wounded. I was still 17 after finishing ITR and got to spend several more months in the states. Any other Vietnam Veterans from the classes of '66 and '67 want to check in here? I am aware of some, including my brother, Andrew Sauvage '66 also Jim Aten '66 and Barry Yocum '67, I ran into Barry while we were both doing time at Great Lakes Hopital.</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This is one of the things I wish we'd talk candidly about, either here or on our new MPHS Forum - how each of us was affected by the war in Viet Nam and that whole era. Maybe everyone else has succeeded fabulously well in moving on, but I'm still living intimately with the consequences of decisions I made back then. Apparently more so than many of you who actually fought there. I hope you're doing well, Ken.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's funny what we remember. I don't think you and I ever had a conversation of any length, Ken - but I remember your Marine haircut and the "Sat Cong" tattoo as if it were yesterday. What did "Sat Cong" mean, if I may make so bold as to ask once again?</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hello to the Empehi Group and especially to my old 107th Place best - bud Ken Sauvage. After traveling through time over the past few weeks it's great to see another name still around. Remembering nude swimming, all the radio contests, Snackville Junction and those Roman "Y" parties including the formal dance lessons and the rest, I'm in the middle of a time-warp that I'm not to much in a hurry to leave. I am glad that some of the political discussion will be shifting.This old Daily Democrat, transplanted into a hot bed of Republicism in Southern Illinois, needs a little free zone without the tempers always on the edge. I do remember walking out of Spanish I class our Freshman year at Clissold Branch and being told that Kennedy had been shot.We were gong into Algebra I with good old Miss O'Brien. Anybody remember the tall blond English teacher that married the history teacher while we were there? My Empehi yearbooks are in the attic and when we put all the Christmas junk away, I will have an excuse to look for them again. I know I have all 4 years, just finding them is the challenge.<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ken Sauvage-----bring me up to date on your side of the world. Do you remember that lion head you carved for me? It is hanging in the hallway of my real estate office. It has been a fixture of my life since you gave it to me.</span></span><br />
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On the Butkus time frame. Old Butkus was ahead of all of us. He kicked my brother in the back during a regular season game between MPHS and CVS and was thrown out. A guy by the name of lee Burnett got even with him during the championship round game between our two schools. It was Lee's tackle that hurt Butkus' knees for his first season at U of I. Somewhere in this house of mine, I have an old 8mm take of that game with that tackle. My dad took most of the game when my brother was playing. Anyone from the early 60's remember my cousin, Donnie Craske? He was the team doctor for 2-3 years. The only time I remember a doctor smoking on the side lines of a high school football game!</span></span><br />
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Life goes on----Anyone heard from Jimmy Klenk? Last time I was in Chicago, his mom was still living in their home on 107th Place next to our old house. Jimmy was on the north side somewhere. Any contact with him about the reunion?<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Best wishes to everyone----As Red Green from PBS says--keep your powder dry and remember duct tape is mans best friend after a good dog or wife which ever one is in the room when you mention it.</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ken, Did you play the drum's at Clissold??<br />
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I think I remember you from that..<br />
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I was in the USAF but never went overseas. I guess I was lucky being stateside my whole term. I did loose some friends I served with that went to Vietnam and never came back.<br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-size: x-large;">I didn't expect as much a response to my posting, good to hear from all. That war shaped us all, no matter whether, or where we served. One of my reasons for posting the message I did, besides that fact that it hit me pretty deep to see Al McNabb's name again, was simply as a reminder of the human cost of war.</span><br />
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Yes John, that was me with Sat Cong tattooed on my arm, which gives you a pretty good idea of my low level of maturity and ability to romanticize BS at the time. It was removed many years ago.<br />
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Ron McComb, yes also that was me that played drums at Clissold and also all four years at Empehi.<br />
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Dave Craske, good to hear from you neighbor. I'd forgotten about the lion carving until you mentioned it, but then again my memory is pretty selective. My standard line is that I have become Buddhist and am living only in the present. Last I heard of Jim Klenk was that he was lawyering for the Tribune, but that's going back a few years. Before he passed away, my Dad stayed in touch with Mrs. Klenk. I came across a picture recently, probably from 7th grade or so, of us with ice skates heading down towards Crescent Park, I don't think we've had a winter cold enough around here to ice skate outside for a long time.</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I served as a grunt with the 25th and 101st Airborne divisions in Vietnam in 1971. I live in Normal IL now, but work 3 days a week at a museum founded by my father - The Livingston County War Museum in Pontiac IL. We have exhibits from World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.<br />
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Our blog is: </span></span></b></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://www.warmuseum.blogspot.com/"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">www.warmuseum.blogspot.com</span></a></span></b></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We have a lot of photos and articles about the museum on it. We also have a Facebook page under "Livingston County War Museum". Please check it out and become a friend of the museum.<br />
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Hope you will be able to visit our museum. Please contact me before you visit, and I'll be sure to be there to show you around.<br />
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Sincerely,<br />
David Estes<br />
Education Director<br />
Livingston County war Museum<br />
Dal Estes Education Center<br />
Pontiac IL<br />
email: lcwarmuseum@yahoo.com<br />
museum: (815) 842-0301</span></span></b></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; line-height: 18px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was drafted in July, 1968. I spent my first year in the Army stateside, training and attending Non-Commissioned Officers Candidate School at Fort Benning, Georgia. I deployed to Vietnam in July, 1969. I served with A Company, 4th Battalion, 12th Infantry, 199th Light Infantry Brigade as a platoon sergeant for 7 months and later as a platoon leader of a heavy weapons platoon for my remaining five months in country. I returned home in July, 1970</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial;">.</span></span></span></b></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> Randy L Jan '66<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was in Vietnam in 1971 as a medical supply specialist in the army. I was in Cam Ranh Bay from January to June and in Long Binh for the remainder of the year.</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was driving my deuce-and-a-half on Long Binh Army Base in Vietnam in the summer of 1971 when I saw a puppy without tags sitting on the side of the road, watching me drive by. Since we made eye contact, I decided to stop my truck and see what happened. Lo and behold, the pup trotted up to my truck… so I let him on. The company clerk said we were already over our allotment of pets, but we went to the XO anyway to see if there was anything we could do about keeping him. Unbeknowst to us, the pup had wandered into the CO's office. So, as we were pleading our case to the XO, the CO came in with the pup in his arms and told the XO to figure out a way to keep the pup, which he did. So we named him Scottie, after the clerk's son, and got his rabies shots. Then we got the order that all dogs vaccinated in that period were to be destroyed because of bad shots. Good thing our company had a vet who knew the vaccinators. The shot records got lost and, after confining Scottie for 21 days to make sure he was clean, we got him vaccinated again. He received a purple heart for the insult and the official records are buried under pfc Scottie L, 9th Medical Laboratory, United States Army, Long Binh, Republic of Vietnam.</span></span></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What happened to him, Randy? Please finish the story.<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Randy</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Reminds me of a story. One of our Morgan Park High School Vet friends (Name withheld to protect the innocent and/or guilty) was due home. We assembled at his home for a welcome home party, but the family told us he would be a few weeks late because his platoon had been put on medical hold - The story was they had a dog who had bitten a number of the guys, and they were on medical hold until it could be determined if they had been infected with rabies. </span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was suspicious of that story, wondering if they had been infected by a different type of human disease caused by a different type of contact. This sounded more likely to me. I never got him alone to determine if my guess was correct.</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dave G ‘66</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was assigned to the 12th USAF Hospital Cam Ranh AB from 68 – 69 as a MEDIC.<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was great hearing from you Dave. It does make one feel like they are living in a time warp when remembering things from 35+ years ago. Now that my mom no longer lives in Beverly, it has been awhile since I have been back there. I might have to make the trip to the old neighborhood while in for Christmas. Wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season!!!!!<br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When I was a high school teacher, my students would sometimes bring up Vietnam, usually because they’d heard from someone that I had served there. When they asked me why I went to Vietnam, my standard reply was “Because I was a coward so I took the easy way out.” They usually laughed at that, but I explained that my only other options were to leave the country and possibly never see my friends and family again, go to prison, or lie outrageously enough to get “conscientious objector” status by telling them I wouldn’t even use violence to protect my grandmother if she was being attacked by a rapist, which was the kind of question they tended to ask back then. So I took what I figured was the easiest way out. When it became apparent that I was going to be drafted I joined the Navy Reserves and ended up on an aircraft carrier in the South China Sea.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was never my intention to go to Vietnam and I had been a participant in several anti-war protests, including the massive November, 1969, gathering in Washington. I was a senior in college when the first draft lottery was held and was my number was bad enough that I was called for a physical fairly quickly, but since I was studying to be a teacher, and teachers had draft deferments, I never really worried about it. Then in the middle of my student teaching, having actually received a couple of job offers already, President Nixon surprised everyone with an executive order ending all new teaching deferments and I was suddenly officially screwed. So as I said, I took the easy way out.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And in many ways I did have it easy, at least a lot easier than those poor guys who lost their lives, their limbs, or their minds in the jungles over there. The few times I was actually in country I felt fairly safe most of the time. And even though aircraft carriers aren’t the safest places to work because of the danger of fires and explosions, my job as a journalist didn’t expose me to too much of that stuff. The U.S.S. Midway, now a floating museum in San Diego, was an efficiently run machine with a crew of good hard-working people. Sleeping on 3-tiered bunks in a room with 70 other men was a little claustrophobic, eating powdered eggs and drinking powdered milk every day was not my idea of a good time, nor was working long shifts seven days a week for 45 days at a time without ever seeing a woman or even a bottle of beer. But I know I could have had it a lot worse. I look at it more as a couple of years of my life when I had to take an annoyingly long detour. The detour itself had a few surprising advantages--some interesting experiences and some good friendships--but all-in-all I could have done without it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If our pilots reported that they killed a water buffalo, we were supposed to report it as a WBLC (water-borne logistics craft). Absolute truth was another casualty in Vietnam. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">After the peace agreement was completed in January, 1973, we stayed for a few more weeks flying more sorties, probably technically illegal (although it’s hard to believe our Commander-in-Chief Richard Nixon would approve anything illegal). Our Commanding Officer would come on every morning with his daily announcements and would always start with something like, “Sorry, I still have no information about when we’ll be returning home, but I guarantee I will let you know as soon as I learn anything.” We were all anxious to get back to our home port of San Francisco since we had already been out at sea a lot longer than they told us we would be. Then one morning, in place of the CO’s daily announcement, the intercom system started playing the song, “If you’re going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.” We all started cheering, both because we knew that was the signal that we were going home, and also probably partly because our Captain gave us that signal by playing a hippie song--very cool, really.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Because we got back to the States a couple of months after the war ended, we didn’t have people celebrating our return or spitting on us and calling us “baby killers” or anything like that. When we returned, everybody just seemed to want to pretend all of it never happened. That seemed to be fine with most Vietnam vets I knew, since they really didn’t want to talk about it with anyone who hadn’t been there. Unfortunately, some of them wanted to get involved in veterans’ organizations, but many of the organizations didn’t want to have anything to do with Vietnam vets. While I had a few unpleasant conversations with some old anti-war acquaintances, my most unpleasant ones were actually with WWII veterans who ranted about us Vietnam druggies who destroyed our “undefeated” war record. I told them I had done my duty, earned medals, ribbons, and commendations and had received an honorable discharge and asked what more they wanted. One of them said, “To win, damn it--that’s what it’s all about!” <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">An aircraft carrier is a floating city, with 5,000 men and 90 jet airplanes and a number of other aircraft. We had a daily newspaper and closed circuit radio and television. We did our television and radio news live and had a number of volunteer disc jockeys who did much of our radio shows, including a Marine corporal, “Sweet Daddy” Lincoln Ware, who was named AFRTS Soul DJ of the Year in the early 70s. One day he said he had received a new record from AFRTS and wanted us to call in our opinions on it. It was “Candy Man” by Sammy Davis, Jr., and I called him and said, “Jeez, Linc, you call yourself a soul disc jockey? Even I’ve got more soul than this song.” From then on he played it every day, saying it was “a request from petty officer Jim Seamon, because it’s his favorite song ever,” People started stopping me when they saw my name on my work shirt and asking me to stop requesting the song because they hated it. I don’t think they believed my protests that I, too, hated it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Occasionally when I was working nights on the ship and I was waiting for the final proof of the newspaper to read I would go down to the studio and play some tunes for the night crew so they didn’t have to listen to elevator music all night. One night I went down and put on “Gimme Some Lovin” by Crazy Elephant and turned the volume up. Within a minute the phone light lit up and I figured it was somebody on the night crew thanking me for putting on some good music. Instead, it was the Admiral’s orderly. Apparently, the Admiral had fallen asleep to the easy listening crap on the radio and I had suddenly awakened him at 3:00 a.m. with a very loud rock song. His orderly called to with the admiral’s demand to know who had done that and why. I said, “Well, I really don’t know. Let me ask Linc.” Then I waited a few seconds and said, “Sorry, he says it’s none of your business,” and then got the hell out of there. A couple of days later, Linc came into my office and said, “I had a meeting with the Admiral yesterday.” I said, “Wow, that’s the big time--you must really be proud.” “Okay,” he replied, “I figure you’re involved in this, so if you promise me no more admirals I promise I won’t play that song any more. I can’t stand it either.”</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I had dropped out of school and was knocking around southern Kansas, hauling hay to supplement my partying habit, when oil was discovered on the North Slope of Alaska. My buddies and I seriously discussed going to Alaska to make our fortunes in the oil fields, but I realized I had never been warm once during the winters in Chicago, and the thought of going some place colder was too intimidating. So I passed on the opportunity. But God works in strange ways. I guess I was supposed to go to Alaska for some reason, because having dropped out for a while, I got drafted and sent to Alaska. I remember getting my orders to go to Alaska and thinking I don't want to go to Alaska, it's cold up there. Then I realized that everyone in front of me when to Korea, I and another guy were sent to Alaska, and everyone behind us went to Viet Nam. All of a sudden Alaska didn't seem so bad.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But as someone who likes to think for himself rather than take orders, I hated the Army. Ooooh I hated the Army. However looking back, I realize the Army elbowed me out of my chosen career, but my current career is actually a lot better, I made Alaska my home for 15 years and found my family there, and used a zero down VA loan to make my first serious money in real estate. I have a lot to be grateful for, and as ironic as it seems, I have to be grateful to the Army, Alaska and all of you who were standing behind me in that orders line.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The aftermath of the Viet Nam war was not one of kudos for the vets like WWII was. That combined with my bitterness toward the military left me feeling sort of empty about the whole thing. I remember about 10 years ago, being at a show and they did a tribute to all the services, asking us to stand as each service's song was played, and actually be thanked for being in the service. I had never been thanked by anyone for being in the service, and actually ended up with tears in my eyes. I guess that was part of the process of dropping the bitterness over what might have been and replacing it with gratitude for what I have.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Either that or I am finally growing up.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dave </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: x-large;">DeVerdier</span><span class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-size: x-large;"> also served in the Marines in Vietnam. He got home the day I left for Vietnam.</span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Warren Muhr was one year ahead of us. He was a great guy, who died in Vietnam.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bob Burgoyn and Jack Davia lived at 105th and Lawndale. They attended Brother Rice, but took some classes at Morgan Park. Both made it through Vietnam, but both died soon after returning - Bob from a truck accident, and Jack from Hepatitis.</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig Hullinger</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I served 4 and 1/2 years on active duty with the Marines, including 18 months in Vietnam, from XMAS Eve1969 until late June 71. I spent another 28 years in the Marine Reserves.</span></span><br />
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Photos and a blog about one of my old Vietnam units below:</span></span></div>
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<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/VietnamHill327#" style="color: #999999; text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/VietnamHill327#</span></span></a></div>
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<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/Vietnam1970#" style="color: #999999; text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/Vietnam1970#</span></span></a><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/MASS3MarineAirSupportSquadron3VietnamHill327Mass3#" style="color: #999999; text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://picasaweb.google.com/chullinger/MASS3MarineAirSupportSquadron3VietnamHill327Mass3#</span></span></a><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<a href="http://mass-3.blogspot.com/" style="color: #999999; text-decoration: none;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://mass-3.blogspot.com/</span></span></a><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Helo / Explosion / Ghost Marine</span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My wife and I went back to Vietnam in 1999 (Did my last Marine Reserve Day there, without telling the Vietnamese Communists - Kind of liked it that my last day in the Marine Corps Reserve before I retired was back in country). It is still a beautiful country. Stayed on China Beach in an ultra luxury hotel, next to the old R and R hotel, which is still there.</span></span><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam is a nice place to visit but I would not want to live there.</span></span></span></span></div>
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<span face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thank you, Craig, for mentioning Warren Muhr, my neighbor on Drake Street. I checked out The Virtual Wall and remembered the day years ago when I did a tracing of Warren's name for his family. ( I live in Aspen Hill/Silver Spring MD which is a suburb of Washington, DC.) To all of our classmates (and their children) who served in some branch of the military, Thanks! Thanks! And, Thanks again! Glad you are home with us.</span></span><br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-77071212207636786122010-01-26T19:49:00.001-08:002010-06-11T07:38:27.346-07:00<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></span><br />
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</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As tragic as the Kennedy assassination was, I never felt fearful that the world had gone mad until the deaths of ML King and Bobby Kennedy. The nightly news aired frightening scenes of napalm strikes on Vietnamese villages, bloodied soldiers lying on gurnies and rows of body bags being loaded onto air transports. The scenes at home weren't much better, with newscams covering student demonstrators being pumleted with billy clubs, while peacefully demonstrating against the establishment. Police brutality extended beyond the college campus' and revealed all its historic ugliness while opposing equality for black Americans. A byproduct of our 'hip' generation was the proliferation of the drug trade. There's a littany of insanities following the JFK assassination and I for one, am very pleased that it is behind me now. The current challenges we are facing, are world encompassing and tend to pale the tragic events which comprised the 60's. I have faith that there is more sanity in humanity than insanity.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In retrospect, those days at Empehi were bitter-sweet in its naivete.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ron M</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My feelings were similar. I do not even remember where I was when John Kennedy died. However I do remember the funeral on TV and John John saluting.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What hit me hard was when Bobby was shot and killed.....</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy 66</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There's an interesting and poignant link between the graduation issues of the Empehi News in June 1966 and January 1967.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In June, it is announced that Sgt. John Holstein, the Empehi ROTC teacher, is on his way to Vietnam. In January, it is announced that he was killed in battle in late December. He was with the First Cavalry Airborne.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What was ROTC like at Empehi? Was it a class? Open to anybody (male)? Who took it? What military advantages or disadvantages accrued to participants? Is it still in place at MPHS? If not, when did it end?</span></span></div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John N 1966</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm surprised there haven't been any other responses to this one from John Bantsolas, Andy Sauvage and several others on the board that were in ROTC at Empehi as I was. What was it like? It was a class like most others, except you wore a uniform once a week, had inspections, rank, learned to field strip an M1 and several other things. Any one (male, at the time) could join and it was an alternative to gym class. I took it for two reasons: a) it got me out of gym, and b) because my brother had.(Phil was in the class of 1962 and had ended up a cadet Colonel, the highest ranking cadet in charge of all the ROTC cadets in Chicago. Nothing like sibling rivalry. Sounds like the logic behind my degree in Physics from IIT, as well)</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Advantages? I took ROTC in high school and AFROTC at IIT, at least until I told a real AF major to stuff it during one of their summer camps. I enlisted in the Army after college (draft #34 in the first lottery) and, once out of basic they made me a PFC instead of a Private because of my ROTC participation. Not much, but something in the world of the Army, and at least after the ROTC experience you were used to taking orders, even if sometimes they made no sense. Good experience for the business world, too.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Don't know if its still in place at Empehi, but I hope so. I have a couple of nephews that could use the discipline. Unfortunately, they live in San Clemente, not Chicago, and I doubt the high schools out here in CA support ROTC at all.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MCB</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My first cousin, Bill Owen, whose mother's family were all MPHS grads, attended MPHS part of one year when visiting Chicago from the middle east where he grew up. He was the oldest of our generation among all the cousins. He taught at Ft. Benning for a year before being sent overseas, and died trying to save one of his men when they were ambushed. Accepted at Harvard for a joint law/MBA degree but decided to serve his country first. Twenty four years old forever. Still missed.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WILLIAM LEE OWEN JR</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2LT - O1 - Army - Reserve</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Length of service 0 years</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">His tour began on Mar 24, 1969</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty was on Apr 11, 1969</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In BINH DUONG, SOUTH VIETNAM</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Body was recovered</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Panel 27W - Line 58</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Julie M 67</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So sorry to hear about the loss of your cousin in the war! We owe him a great debt. Thanks for sharing about him and his heroic intervention on the behalf of others. It is an inspiring story and I for one, will be forever grateful for his sacrifice!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sincerely,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Judy</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I'll be at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial again next week. Has anyone in your family ever done or received a "tracing" of your cousin's name? I see that he was in Vietnam only weeks when he was killed."</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MC</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hi Judy,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think years ago someone did a tracing of Bill Owen's name. He was like a brother to us.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Wall is certainly a moving place. All those memorials remind us of those throughout our country's years who made great sacrifice of time, resources, and life in the name of the main idea that the individual was specially made, worthy to be free to grow and do and accomplish without oppression from government.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">May we be worthy!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John Wason wrote</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Thus our soldiers had no way of knowing who was an enemy combatant and who was a civilian; a kid might be carrying a concealed bomb. This led, it is said, to the killing of civilians and the burning of villages."</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig replies - A kid could carry a grenade. You hear those stories, but I think they are mostly urban legend. I have read most books published about Vietnam, but no book has told that story, and no Vet has ever told me that story.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Vietnamese loved their kids like any other people, and they had no desire to have their kids be killed in a suicide mission. Of course it is possible that a VC with contempt for the local villagers could have put a small child up to carrying a hand grenade.</span></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1-99MNiWoI/AAAAAAAABpI/_DTLBwPVWy8/s1600-h/Kids+all+liked+up.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1-99MNiWoI/AAAAAAAABpI/_DTLBwPVWy8/s320/Kids+all+liked+up.jpg" width="316" /></a></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And no one had the right to hurt civilans or destroy property.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Most of the kids seemed to love us. Most interactions were positive. Of course, the Marines were handing out c-rations and candy, so were popular with kids. And the Corpsman provided medical care.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Muslim Hate</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">" Much has been written concerning 'their' hatred of us, but very little has been written as to WHY they hate us. There is always a basis for hatred. John W and I had briefly covered the WHY's. Would anyone else like to add, or detract from that reasoning?"</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig comments</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Most Islamic people don't hate us. Most of the Islamic People are decent people who are not filled with hate. Relatively few terrorists.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A significant percentage are very angry, however, for the following reasons:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We support Israel, considered by them an aggressor and interloper</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are the strongest county in the world (nobody roots for Goliath)</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are one of the richest</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are free</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A significant number of us are hedonists</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We have provided support to a number of regimes - if you are against the current regime, you are also against the countries that support that regime.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We throw our weight around - each cruise missile we fire is hated.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our successful military prowess points out the weakness of the Islamic States</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Having an external enemy is always good to have someone to blame for whatever is wrong.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">HOW COULD WE GET THEM TO STOP HATING US?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Drop support for Israel</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Convert to Islam</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Suppress all sex and nudity</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Withdraw from all Islamic countries</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bill </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">SOME of them hate the US because - in the words of some of the British</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">to the Yanks in early WWII -</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">we're over paid, oversexed, and over there.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
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<span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">__________</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><br />
</span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nan B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim Beck died in Vietnam.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I remember at the time of his death, there was an article in the Beverly Review about him.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was surprised that his picture is not in our June 1966 graduating class, but I am sure he transferred in to MPHS (from one of the Catholic HS) our senior year and graduated with us. Our families were friends in grammar school, in fact he was probably my brother's best friend for a few years in grammar school. (in grammar school we called him Dick, at MP he was known as Jim. I think his name was Richard James.) Then the Becks moved and we lost touch with them.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Did any of you know Jim? NB</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> _________________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim D</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hi Dave and Nan...Richard James Beck Jr is on Panel 60E Row 8 of the Vietnam Wall in DC....You can see his picture at www.thevirtualwall.org and read some great remembrances about him from his family and friends...He died putting down surpressing fire so his fellow soldiers could escape. " No man has greater love than to lay down his life for his brother"...</span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody>
<tr><td style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" valign="top"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Lou M</span></span></div></td></tr>
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<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody>
<tr><td style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" valign="top"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">I wasn't drafted - although I was confident that would happen. I was in college at Western Kentucky University and wanted to finish before I was drafted- so I joined the Naval Reserve. They assured me at that time that I would be able to finish school before going on active duty. </span></span></div></td></tr>
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<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody>
<tr><td style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" valign="top"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">While in the Reserves I did all that was required. of me.- Boot Camp in the summer and weekend meetings. A year after I had joined , I received orders for active duty ! Someone had lied to me! When I inquired about finishing school- I was told "Sorry"-- the apology smacked of insincerity- no one was sorry at all.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">It gets better! - I was sent to San Francisco to await assignment. I was there for approximately 3 weeks when my orders came. At the time you didn't get formal orders right away, but rather through a teletype machine- virtually every word was abbreviated- something like the texting language of today.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">I wasn't sure, but I thought my orders said that I was going to be on an RVN. Not knowing what an RVN was, I asked a Chief Petty Officer what kind of boat I was going to be on. His reply," It's not a fucking boat, you dumb ass, it's a ship and you're not on one." I said," What's this RVN?" He replied, "You're getting shore duty- Republic of Viet Nam ." I was speechless.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">So, I was then sent to San Diego for survival school and on to Camp Pendelton for weapons training. Then I was sent to Viet Nam without any clue of what was to happen.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span></span></div><div><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">I arrived in Da Nang and had a couple of days of indoctrination and then they sent me to Naval Base.I reported and was told to wait outside- I would be picked up.A </span></span><u><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Marine </span></span></u><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">vehicle showed up for me- I had been assigned to a Marine Battalion. I wasn't a corpsman so I was pretty confused and scared. I was never given and explanation as to why I served with the Marines- I just did as I was told- like we all did.</span></span></em></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><em></em> </span></span></div><div><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Forty years after returning home I developed prostate cancer from my exposure to Agent Orange in Viet Nam. Yet another fable they told us-" It won't hurt you" they assured us!- while the stuff killed everything.</span></span></em></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><em></em> </span></span></div><div><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Viet Nam - the gift that keeps on giving. For the loss of my prostate I am paid a measly $339 a month in Veteran's Benefits- a small price to pay for my loss.</span></span></em></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><em></em> </span></span></div><div><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">I regret that I only had one prostate to give to my country!</span></span></em></div></td></tr>
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<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">"For Man of the Year-</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Sir: The Vietnam Veteran. Drafted to defend a dubious cause in which he has no interest, into an Army whose officers may cheat him, to fight through a hell of swamps and heat on behalf of a corrupt government whose reluctant troops are incompetent-only to return, quick or dead, to a homeland where the enemy is encouraged by his contemporaries and many of his legislators and his own sacrifices are ridiculed. No Moon Man he." </span></span><br />
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</span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;">Time Magazine circa 1968</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Another member of the class of '66 who succumbed to suicide was Ken Roberts who jumped out of a window at Northwestern Medical School in his Junior year. Ken was a fraternity brother of mine at the U. of I., finished pre-med in three years and went to Northwestern. To my knowledge we never learned why he chose to end his life.</span></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nan, now you're speaking as a psychotherapist. :-) Is that what you are?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A few years ago I read a very insightful book, which I still have, called "Achilles in Vietnam" by Jonathan Shay, MD, PhD. Its subtitle is "Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character". I was wanting to understand what our soldiers went through, pyschologically, in Viet Nam. Shay explains some of the factors in the Vietnam War that led to a much higher incidence of PTSD in Vietnam than in, say, World War II.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A very dear friend of mine, Gerald Nicosia, recently published a 700+ page tome called "Home to War", about the Vietnam Veterans antiwar movement, and their fight to obtain benefits from the VA for such things as PTSD and Agent Orange exposure. It's somewhat scholarly, but compelling reading.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But nowhere in either book do I recall encountering the stuff you're talking about above, Nan. What's EMDR? What did Figley discover? What I've observed in the field of psychology is that psychologists seem to feel that if they give something a name - i.e., a "diagnosis" - they're about 90% of the way to a cure. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it's deceptive. We don't have the political will in this country to cure many of the psychological ills we see around us, which would be relatively easy to cure if we were using a systemic approach and not the usual band-aid approach.</span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm constantly reminded of the experiments that were done with mice and rats in mazes. One such experiment was set up so that no matter what the rat did, s/he was "rewarded" with an electric shock. There was no behavior the rat could do that would allow him or her to escape being shocked. After a while, the rat just curled up in the cage in a fetal position, a quivering blob of jelly. I see that all the time with people, though people are amazingly resilient given how many ways there are to get "shocked" in our society. I don't know how this phenomenon relates to PTSD, because it hasn't been given a "name" yet, but I see it as just a slower and more chronic form of PTSD.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________ </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nan B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks for the recommendations, they both sound like excellent books. I have added them to my 'need to read' list.!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My husband is the psychologist/psychotherpist, not me. However, I have had lot of 'exposure' over the years.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Is your friend Gerald Nicosia related to Greg Nicosia? My husband knows Greg Nicosia---they are both very involved in the new Energy Psychology approaches.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) is a treatment technique developed by Francine Shapiro for the treatment of trauma. You can read about it at EMDR.com.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charles Figley, Ph.D. is a psychologist and professor at Florida State who has done exhaustive research and publication in trauma and stress, especially among Vietnam Vets.You might want to take a look at his home page:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><a href="http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cfigley/bio.html"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cfigley/bio.html</span></span></a><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue E </span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There was so much social and political unrest in our nation during our later years at Empehi and extending well into the mid 70's. Following graduation, I often visited friends at NIU, WIU and Purdue and recognized varying degrees of campus unrest, extending from extreme to mild. Were any here on this forum active in the anti-war movements that were prevalent during that time? </span></span></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1OyO8ynZKI/AAAAAAAABkM/kdiA3XC-WBc/s1600-h/woodstock.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1OyO8ynZKI/AAAAAAAABkM/kdiA3XC-WBc/s320/woodstock.jpg" /></span></span></a><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Had anyone attended Woodstock or participated in the Democratic Nation Convention demonstrations in Grant Park? (I believe the Statute of Limitations has run out and it's now safe to come clean about the latter, without worry of state or federal indictment). </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: left;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While studying for my MA at SUNY/Buffalo, I discovered in their archives volumes of pictorial memorabilia depicting the serious extent of unrest on that campus. The students in '69' had actually taken control of 1/2 of the campus buildings (excluding dorms) and the Natl. Guard was enlisted in taking back the school. Pretty heady stuff.</span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1O0h4IDfqI/AAAAAAAABks/m7p5lgJ86No/s1600-h/DARTMOUTH.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="320" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1O0h4IDfqI/AAAAAAAABks/m7p5lgJ86No/s320/DARTMOUTH.jpg" width="246" /></span></span></a></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
At Dartmouth, 50-100 students took over the main administration building in 1969, I think the year was, with the goal (ultimately successful for a time) of ridding the campus of ROTC, which was considered to be a tool of the "Military Industrial Complex" (a phrase first used, to my knowledge, in a warning to the nation by Dwight Eisenhower, hardly the personification of liberalism). A couple of my friends were inside the building; I was outside as part of a much larger crowd. Unlike the scenario that unfolded at a number of other universities, Dartmouth quickly got a court order for the students to vacate the building, which was ignored. </span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">At about 3 AM the New Hampshire National Guard rolled in, in full riot gear and with buses to transport the students to jail. The Guardsmen formed a cordon along both sides of the sidewalk leading up to the administration building, battered down the door of the building, and carried out those students who refused to walk to the waiting buses. The occupying students were arrested and went to jail, eventually had a trial, and most were convicted of something like criminal trespass and served a month or so in jail.</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
<br />
I remember standing outside, toe to toe and face to face with one of the National Guardsmen in the cordon. Caught up in the mob psychology, I was screaming "Pig!" at him. At the same time a part of me was thinking, "This guy is not much older than I am, and plainly doesn't want to be here. It's a bit embarrassing to be calling him a 'pig'." But we were both caught up in our respective roles, or our "trips" as we used to say. In that situation, at least, the National Guard exercised exquisite discipline, and didn't start beating up those of us who were outside screaming in their faces. Their mission was to arrest those inside the building, and that they carried out with dispatch.<br />
<br />
Despite having the students arrested, Dartmouth's trustees soon voted to banish ROTC from campus. But about 25 years later it was reinstated. History is all about cycles.<br />
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In November of 1969 in Washington DC I took part in what was supposedly the largest protest march in American history, at least up to that time. It was reported that there were around 500,000 of us there. I remember hitchhiking down from New Hampshire to New York City, where I caught a ride to DC. Again, while I felt like I was a part of something big and important, I also felt somewhat sheeplike, chanting on cue. I could barely even see or hear the speakers. That was in the days before the federal government had quite figured out how to "control" protest by imposing unreasonable "time, place, and manner restrictions" on our First Amendment rights, and before the media began cooperating by underreporting the numbers protesting as they do nowadays.<br />
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I never made it to Woodstock. Didn't even know about it until after it had already happened. But a few years ago I went to one of the annual "Rainbow Gatherings" in a national forest in Vermont. It was kinda weird, too....a lot of old hippies and young Deadheads and whatnot. Too much weirdness for a middle-aged "straight cat" like me.<br />
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My admiration to those who made the sacrifice and went to Nam. I can't even begin to imagine your fear and trepidation that accompanied your decision to go.<br />
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I think a lot of them didn't have much idea of what they were getting themselves into. And for many of them it wasn't exactly a decision. Still, one can only admire and respect our Viet Nam veterans (and other veterans, for that matter). They served during very tough times and survived against very tough odds. Whether they served to "make the world safe for democracy" or because they were lied to by their government - well, that's the political question of the ages. Nevertheless they served, and they're entitled to our respect and admiration. I'd like to think, though, that those of us who recognized the war in Viet Nam as an exercise in futility or far worse, and protested it, served our country too.<br />
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It's interesting to me how many of the guys on this reunion chat forum are veterans. A bow of respect and appreciation to each and every one of you.<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MCH</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I, too, would like to add my respect and appreciation to each and every </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">veteran. One of my closest cousins, the oldest of our family who was like a brother, will forever be 24 since he gave his life in Viet Nam in 1969. Regardless of the politics of any side, each person tried to do what he or she knew to be the best at the time.</span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Quotes from the Nam</span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1OpIFIiwfI/AAAAAAAABjY/0Bs3O9r78zA/s1600-h/ch53.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1OpIFIiwfI/AAAAAAAABjY/0Bs3O9r78zA/s640/ch53.jpg" /></span></span></a></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Winning the Hearts and Minds of the People</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Don't mean nothin</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Back in the World</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We gotta get out of this place, </span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">if it's the last thing we ever do</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yeah though I walk</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">through the valley</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">of the shadow of death</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I will fear no evil</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cause with my M-16 Rifle,</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I am the baddest mother </span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">in the Valley</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam - a nice place to visit, but I would not want to live there.</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Peace and Love</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Peace through Fire Superiority</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Recon by Fire</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Free Fire Zone</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Make love, not war</span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You volunteered for this? What were you thinking?</span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Never Volunteer</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Close with and Destroy the Enemy</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Don't blame me - we were winning when I left</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Not much of a war, but the only one we had</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One good deal after another</span></span></span></div></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1O0vPeqB2I/AAAAAAAABk0/gzF6Tu8DOcA/s1600-h/Flying+North.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1O0vPeqB2I/AAAAAAAABk0/gzF6Tu8DOcA/s640/Flying+North.jpg" /></span></span></a></div></div><div style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: #6699cc;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: #6699cc;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Flying North along the South China Sea</span></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: #6699cc;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></span></div></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1Pd43fS9BI/AAAAAAAABk8/Ps4c82hewz8/s1600-h/My+10+Cents+Worth.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1Pd43fS9BI/AAAAAAAABk8/Ps4c82hewz8/s640/My+10+Cents+Worth.jpg" /></span></span></a></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: #6699cc;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One Thin Dime</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div class="post hentry uncustomized-post-template" style="border-bottom-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 1.5em; padding-left: 14px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><div class="post-body entry-content" style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________________</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
Remember the little Christian ditty, "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands (stamp your feet, etc.)"? Here's a slightly revised version. Enjoy. :-)<br />
<br />
If You're Happy And You Know It Bomb Iraq<br />
by John Robbins<br />
<br />
If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.<br />
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.<br />
If the terrorists are frisky,<br />
Pakistan is looking shifty,<br />
North Korea is too risky,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
<br />
If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.<br />
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.<br />
So to hell with the inspections,<br />
Let's look tough for the elections,<br />
Close your mind and take directions,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
<br />
It's pre-emptive non-aggression, bomb Iraq.<br />
To prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.<br />
They've got weapons we can't see,<br />
And that's all the proof we need,<br />
If they're not there, they must be there,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
<br />
If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.<br />
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.<br />
If you think Saddam's gone mad,<br />
With the weapons that he had,<br />
And he tried to kill your dad,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
<br />
If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.<br />
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.<br />
If your politics are sleazy,<br />
And hiding that ain't easy,<br />
And your manhood's getting queasy,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
<br />
Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.<br />
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.<br />
Disagree? We'll call it treason,<br />
Let's make war not love this season,<br />
Even if we have no reason,<br />
Bomb Iraq.<br />
_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My brother sent this to me. He expresses my exact sentiments - but more </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">eloquently than I, regarding the threat of war on Iraq. Thought you might be interested.<br />
<br />
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Subject: FW: Protest The War</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
<br />
I will send this to Til separately. Let me know if he forwards this on to any of you. My guess is he'll unload a tirade on me and not pass it on.<br />
<br />
As for me, I support my country and those who defend it. If Saddam pulls a stunt that costs U.S. lives, then we should retailiate. However, I am opposed to war on Iraq. If Europe and Asia (2 continents closest to Iraq) are not interested in fighting Iraq, than neither am I. Let the Iranians, Israelis, French, Germans, Russians, Italians, etc. handle Iraq. Let Japan, S. Korea, China handle North Korea. If Hussein takes over the Middle East...let him have it.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That god-forsaken part of the world isn't worth one frickin American life.</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
<br />
When I find myself in times of trouble,<br />
Mother Mary comforts me,<br />
Speaking words of wisdom,<br />
"Let it be... Let it be"<br />
<br />
Love,<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Peter<br />
<br />
<br />
Subject: Protest The War<br />
<br />
<br />
Dear friends,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
The US Congress has just authorized the President of the US to go to war against Iraq. Please consider this an urgent request.<br />
<br />
UN Petition for Peace<br />
Stand for Peace.<br />
Islam is not the Enemy.<br />
War is NOT the Answer.<br />
<br />
Today we are at a point of imbalance in the world and are moving toward what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR.<br />
<br />
If you are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures in an effort to avoid a tragic world event.<br />
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Please COPY (rather than Forward) this e-mail in a new message, sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people whom you know. If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send a copy of the message to:<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="color: #247cd4;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mphsforum/post?postID=D5azxwcertaNXV2DDRL8nMLXBoPXCnAUx0sAoqh54xQsSzLkfXVx9Z4dtNYupLyXIsj4ydw"></a></span></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="color: #247cd4;"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mphsforum/post?postID=D5azxwcertaNXV2DDRL8nMLXBoPXCnAUx0sAoqh54xQsSzLkfXVx9Z4dtNYupLyXIsj4ydw" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">usa@un.int</span></span></a></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><mailto:><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mphsforum/post?postID=mYHfb8Xl9OnClP31EBZQ9qzV0RwJgUFBYfKuIMT8Oz4ZGLjvrU1PB982UGXQAXR0zgoeIz_aK9lCcjUZXIBFzOxSDQ"><span style="color: #247cd4;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">president@whitehouse.gov</span></span></span></a></mailto:><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the petition on instead of eliminating it.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W – Signs from the Iraq War Demonstration</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.25in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.25in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1.</span></span><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One nation under surveillance</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"></span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2. How did our oil get under their sand?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3. Who would Jesus bomb?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">4. Start Drafting SUV Drivers Now</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">5. Don't blame me, I voted with the majority</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">6. Buck Fush!</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">7. It's NUCLEAR, not NUCULAR, you idiot!</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">8. Patriots are idiots - Matriarchy Now!</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">9. (With pictures of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld) Asses of Evil</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">10. It's the oil, stupid</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">11. Read between the Pipelines</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">12. The only thing we have to fear is Bush himself</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">13. How many Lives per Gallon?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">14. Negotiation Not Annihilation</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">15. Oh, Say, can You Cease?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">16. Don't Arm a Son of a Bush</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">17. The last time we listened to a Bush, we wandered in the desert<br />
for 40 years.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-left: 1in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dear John, Shortly after Sept.11th, there was an Italian song parody adapted with words to mimic Bin-Laden; it was quite amusing and became a top hit son and video and I must admit I found it funny...but the situation is much more dangerous now than it was then and I guess I am taking the threat of far too seriously to appreciate the cleverness of these verses - I admit they're </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">cute and fit the music perfectly...<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">but rather than criticize the president and descend into the pits of </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">name-calling and ridicule (which I have read much of late), I feel it is urgent that we take to heart and do what Paul urged the Roman christians to do (during the period that Nero was emperor), and that is, pray "... for all those in authority, that you may lead peaceful and quiet lives..."<br />
1Tim.2:2)<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Regardless of my personal political orientation, ideas, or feelings - I </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">pray for Bush and I pray for Saddam...that they hear and respond to the voice of All Wisdom.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There are many voices screaming right now on all sides - I pray the voice of God will be heard and followed - I believe in miracles - I believe in peace - I believe we can make a difference.....</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We all respond to the tragic absurdities in the world in different ways, </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie. Some pray, some phone their Congressperson or sign petitions, some try to find refuge in humor. Some do all of the above.<br />
<br />
I heartily encourage you to pray. Prayer is certainly needed. I'm reminded of another scripture that has been bandied about in churches for years and years, without any visible results that I can see: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." II Chronicles 7:14.<br />
<br />
I'm not God, of course, but I think that the phrases "humble themselves" and "turn from their wicked ways" are the ones that trip most folks up.<br />
<br />
Just out of curiosity, what would you speculate is the percentage of church going people, who call themselves Christians, who think that George Bush walks on water and are praying - PRAYING, mind you - for a quick and decisive American military victory in Iraq? What happens to THEIR prayers? Do their prayers and ours sort of cancel each other out, leaving God free to accomplish whatever grand overarching purpose He wanted to accomplish in the first place?<br />
<br />
I have a hard enough time believing in the efficacy of prayer for personal needs, as you know. It's utterly impossible for me to imagine how God could possibly be responsive to the cacaphony of "screaming voices on all sides", as you put it above. My study of history indicates that He lets a lot of "innocent" people die in absurd calamities caused by sinful, fallen human beings who have far more power than they are capable of handling.<br />
<br />
John Dubya</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Interesting that you should quote this verse from Chronicles - it was quoted numerous times right after Sept.11th as a wake up call to America -I believe we, as a nation, need to look humbly at ourselves - and turn from our wicked ways....we, as a nation, need God to forgive us for all the wrong we have done to our own citizens, as well as mistakes we have made abroad;</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
we , as a nation, need healing...<br />
<br />
As for what to pray for, Jesus taught us to pray, "Thy will be done" – God answers our prayers if we are in synch with His desires -<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm not aware of anyone praying for Bush to crush Saddam (although I have heard many journalists and other people are shouting angry bellicose incitements on the radio, tv, and over the web) ...Some christians do support the president's position - others do not...however, I receive the presidential prayer team newsletter weekly, John, where President Bush has specifically asked for prayers for guidance - not victory in battle - He has repeatedly asked that the nation pray for him to make the right decision - and I assure you God does answer prayer for personal purposes..A lady in our church was blinded two years ago after a car accident - she became very angry with God and refused to come to church, or receive any<br />
visits. Just the same, we prayed for her in every Sunday morning service, and on Tuesday in our ladies' group. Today - she can see!!!! God has restored her sight....She is back in church again.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
The cacaphony of "screaming voices on all sides" I referred to was not praying voices, but all the opinions, suggestions, and lobbying surrounding the president, and each of us, when we must make a decision. The world is<br />
constantly clamoring for our attention.....</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Interesting that you should quote this verse from Chronicles - it was quoted numerous times right after Sept.11th as a wake up call to America -I believe we, as a nation, need to look humbly at ourselves - and turn fromour wicked ways....we, as a nation, need God to forgive us for all the wrongwe have done to our own citizens, as well as mistakes we have made abroad; we, as a nation, need healing...</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So who is supposed to do this? The nation is composed of individuals. A nation doesn't do anything. Does this mean that a majority of American citizens need to humble themselves and seek God's face and turn from their wicked ways? Or does it mean that the leaders need to do it, setting an example for the citizens? In the Old Testament, where Chronicles is found, it was consistently the kings - of Israel, Babylon, etc. - who were held responsible for the spiritual condition of their nation.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As for what to pray for, Jesus taught us to pray, "Thy will be done" - God answers our prayers if we are in synch with His desires - I'm not aware of anyone praying for Bush to crush Saddam (although I have heard many journalists and other people are shouting angry bellicose incitements on the radio, tv, and over the web) ...Some christians do support the president's position - others do not...however, I receive the presidential prayer team newsletter weekly, John, where President Bush has specifically asked for prayers for guidance - not victory in battle - He has repeatedly asked that the nation pray for him to make the right decision -</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Here's where my cynical side kicks in big time. Do you believe that President Bush writes this weekly presidential prayer team newsletter himself? Do you NOT believe it's merely a public relations or propaganda organ sent out by the administration, aimed at right-wing fundamentalist Christians? You HAVE heard of propaganda or "spin", right?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm just a tad suspicious of the sincerity of Resident Bush's desire for divine guidance, since he has ALREADY decided who is "good" and who is "evil". America is unquestionably good, while anyone who opposes America is unrelievedly evil. This despite the fact that our government has lied to us repeatedly about the so-called facts that purport to justify its actions. Bush has already designated an "Axis of Evil", and implied that he may add countries to the axis at any moment, at his discretion. While rooting out "weapons of mass destruction" abroad, it has somehow escaped his attention that America has more weapons of mass destruction than all the other countries put together. Does this sound like a man who is sincerely humbling himself and seeking God's face and turning from his wicked ways?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I won't even mention oil. I WILL mention, however, the 2000 election. The Bible says, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the powers that be are ordained of God." (Romans 13:1) This and the verses that follow it have generally been interpreted to mean that we should obey governmental authority because it is put and maintained in place by God. Does this Scripture mean that God conspired with the Bush brothers to orchestrate massive election fraud in Florida so that Dubya could get elected? The election fraud is a fact beyond all disputation; the only thing I'm not sure about is God's role in it.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And I assure you God does answer prayer for personal purposes. A lady in our church was blinded two years ago after a car accident - she became very angry with God and refused to come to church, or receive any visits. Just the same, we prayed for her in every Sunday morning service;and on Tuesday in our ladies' group. Today - she can see!!!! God has restored her sight....She is back in church again. </span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This is something I can't and won't be cynical about. Please greet the woman for me with a holy kiss, and ask her to pray for the rest of us whosevision is impaired.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The cacaphony of "screaming voices on all sides" I referred to was not praying voices, but all the opinions, suggestions, and lobbying surrounding the president, and each of us, when we must make a decision. The world is constantly clamoring for our attention.....</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That's true. I was referring to the praying voices, though. That's a cacaphony, too. During the war in Viet Nam, I was a baby Christian, and I asked other more mature Christians for advice about what I should do with regard to Viet Nam. The advice ranged all the way from killing "gooks" (in obedience to Romans 13:1) to being a pacifist and attempting to get a conscientious objector classification or flee to Canada. It was indeed a cacaphony of voices, each of them most sincere and purporting to speak for God or at least to understand His word and His purposes.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In closing, Marie, if George Dubya Bush is a Christian then I'm a Martian. I can pray for his conversion to Christianity, and I should, but I don't believe for an instant that at this point in time he sincerely desires God's guidance. From every indication he has already declared himself God in his own mind.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 31px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John Dubya</span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________________</span></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">JW- Does this mean that a majority of American citizens need to humble </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">themselves and seek God's face and turn from their wicked ways? Or does it mean that the leaders need to do it, setting an example for the citizens?<br />
<br />
Marie - It means everyone who has a conscience to do so....<br />
<br />
JW - In the Old Testament, where Chronicles is found, it was consistently the kings - of Israel, Babylon, etc. - who were held responsible for the spiritual condition of their nation.<br />
<br />
Marie - And in Jeremiah, chapter 23 , it is the religious leaders - prophets and priests - who God condemns FIRST for deceiving and lying to the kings and people, "Don't worry! ...you shall have peace" (verse 17) ...... "Don't listen to these false prophets" (verse 16) ....."These prophets are as thoroughly depraved as the men of Sodom and Gomorrah"(chap.23, verse 14)<br />
<br />
JW - Here's where my cynical side kicks in big time. Do you believe that Resident Bush writes this weekly presidential prayer team newsletter himself? Do you NOT believe it's merely a public relations or propaganda organ sent out by the administration, aimed at right-wing fundamentalist Christians? You HAVE heard of propaganda or "spin", right?<br />
<br />
Marie - I don't know what "spin" means: But I do know that JWB does not write the newsletter, nor is it a public relations or propaganda organ....It was started by christian citizens, like Joni Eareckson Tada, Dave Wilkerson, and other not so prominent people - there are thousands on the mailing list - who take seriously : "pray for those in authority" as a personal responsibility....<br />
<br />
JW - I was referring to the praying voices, though. That's a cacaphony, too. During the war in Viet Nam, I was a baby Christian, and I asked other more mature Christians for advice about what I should do with regard to Viet Nam. The advice ranged all the way from killing "gooks" (in obedience to Romans 13:1) to being a pacifist and attempting to get a conscientious objector classification or flee to Canada. It was indeed a cacaphony of voices, each of them most sincere and purporting to speak for God or at least to understand His word and His purposes.<br />
<br />
Marie - Praying is speaking to God - which has been compared to "sweet-smelling incense rising to heaven"- not noise. People - even christian people - expressing their opinions and giving advice about what you or I should do is not prayer.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
You're right - we can be confused by all the voices - that's why we need to pray and ask others to pray for us to discern the voice of true Wisdom - again from Jeremiah chap 23, verse 21 - "I have not sent these prophets, yet<br />
they claim to speak for me; I gave them no message, yet they say their words are mine".<br />
<br />
JW - In closing, Marie, if George Dubya Bush is a Christian then I'm a Martian.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I can pray for his conversion to Christianity, and I should, but I don't </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">believe for an instant that at this point in time he sincerely desires<br />
God's guidance. From every indication he has already declared himself God in his own mind.<br />
<br />
Marie - whatever your opinion, it's urgent that you pray for him and all leaders everywhere, be they political or religious......</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________________</span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
About Iraq -<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I watched the inspectors' report to the UN Security Council - live via </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">satellite - and I was pleased to hear most of the representatives invoke patience, continued united effort to disarm Iraq, and the use of force only as a last resort - and I respect Colin Powell and his consistent insistence on Iraq's compliance with UN mandates to disarm. Let's hope Sadam will take this opportunity given him by the UN and freely give up his lethal weapons - and spare his people....<br />
<br />
Below is a letter I received last night. I thought you might find it interesting and a different perspective on Iraq. Did you know in Paris there is a Chaldean church community where Iraqi refugees worship? or that 600,000 Iraqi christians worship in Baghdad?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
If any of you are praying, please pray for the Iraqi christians - and the American bishop going to Iraq to meet them this week.<br />
<br />
Dear All,<br />
<br />
Three weeks ago, I received an invitation along with French Christian leaders from the Patriarch of Baghad (the majority church in Iraq—the Chaldean Church) to visit there with Christian leaders. The purpose of the trip is to establish contacts between Iraqi and European Christians.<br />
<br />
At first I was not inclined to go, as I felt this was beyond my mandate. But the Presiding Bishop, the Secretary-General of the Anglican Communion, and the Anglican Communion officer at Lambeth Palace have all strongly encouraged me to accept. The ACO even offered money to offset the cost of the airfare. The Council of Advice in our discussions about it also were cautiously encouraging.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My wife and daughter expressed their concern for my safety, but have also agreed I should go.<br />
<br />
I am to leave Tuesday and return Saturday. I have my plane reservation to Damascus (we will be driven to Baghdad) and visas. Of course under the circumstances I am reserving the right to decline up to the departure itself.<br />
<br />
I would ask for your prayers tomorrow and in the coming days: for peace, for guidance about this trip, for safe travel, and above all for the Iraqi people, in particular the million or so Christians who need to know of our support and deep concern.<br />
<br />
Yours in Christ,<br />
<br />
+Pierre Whalon<br />
Bishop in charge<br />
Convocation of American Churches in Europe</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Here is an update on the American bishop who went to Iraq: this just came </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">in tonight. Marie<br />
<br />
Dear All,<br />
I am fine, well received, and in no danger at all.<br />
<br />
I met most of the bishops of this country this morning informally, and we shall pray together tomorrow in the Chaldean Protestant Church at 9:30 am.<br />
<br />
I was able to visit St George's Anglican Church here, which is clean and well maintained for a building in Baghdad at this time. It seems to have become a place of prayer for all kinds of Christians. I have photos.<br />
<br />
My simple message that I am responding to the Patriarch's invitation personally to come, meet and pray together, as well as assuring the Christians here of our churches' attempts to avoid war, is being very well received.<br />
<br />
Already to-day I visited a Dominican sisters' hospital, a Missionaries of Charity home for mentally handicapped, met several bishops singly, and seen and talked with many people. More later today.<br />
<br />
I am writing from the internet cafe at the Rasheed Hotel, very famous place, from this address because it was the only one of mine that I could access.<br />
<br />
It was a good idea to come. thank you for your prayers - please keep them coming.<br />
<br />
All my love.<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Louis<br />
<br />
Marie and Friends,<br />
<br />
I chose not to respond to the original message because of my own knee jerk reactions being that I am still working with the Department of State and with the Broadcasting Board of Governors--home of Radio Free Iraq among other things such as the Voice of America. However, the Lord gave me peace from knowing that even though the Bishop was being used and his counterpart in Iraq is not acting freely under pressure from Saddam Hussein, God is still able to bring good from it in spite of whatever intentions the Iraqi regime may have in its charm offensive and duplicity. I will be sitting in this week at hearings by Senator Richar Lugar, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the topic of U.S. Public Diplomacy to the Islamic World. I had prayer earlier this week with a fine christian gentleman at the State Department who is the Deputy Coordinator for the Office of Religious Freedom. That office works on behalf of persecuted christians all over the world. Right now terrible things are going on.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">For tactical reasons we don't put it all in the press, since our aim is to help the persecuted and to turn the tide. Personally, I believe a move of the Holy Spirit through His people, some of whom refuse to renounce their faith in the face of torture and persecution, will do more than any thing else be it war or diplomacy, in bringing about a change in the Middle East and other parts of the Islamic world. I am not blind to Satan's devices. Jesus said to be wise as serpents. He also said to be like doves.<br />
____________<br />
<br />
John W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
You sound like a very important guy, Louis, and poor Marie, Who gets it from both sides and who desires only peace and love in the world (as do I and probably all the rest of us), will be embarrassed by my replying to you, I suppose. But I hope that, while you're being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove, of the utmost perspicacity about Satan's devices, you're also praying for an end to the "charm offensive and duplicity" in the Executive Branch of the American government where you work. We need changes not only in the Islamic world but in the so-called "Christian" world here in the West. I fear George Bush and his version of American Empire at least as much as I fear anything in the Islamic world. And you can quote me....though of course you won't.<br />
<br />
Funny how the Lord is telling us all different things. I hope someone can explain that to me one of these days.<br />
<br />
Sincerely,<br />
<br />
John W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This is the most original, sane, and perfect plan I have heard </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">on this whole Iraq mess in 12 years. I support it 100%. Maybe we should give G Dubya and the UN this email.<br />
<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Subject: New Weapons Inspectors Needed<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Have you noticed anything fishy about the inspection teams who have arrived in Iraq? They're all men! How in the name of the United Nations does anyone expect men to find Saddam's stash? We all know that men have a blind spot when it comes to finding things. For crying out loud! Men can't find the dirty clothes hamper. Men can't find the jar of jelly until it falls out of the cupboard and splatters on the floor .... and these are the people we have sent into Iraq to search for hidden weapons of mass destruction?<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I keep wondering why groups of mothers weren't sent in. Mothers can </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">sniff out secrets quicker than a drug dog can find a gram of dope. Mothers can find gin bottles that dads have stashed in the attic beneath the rafters. They can sniff out a diary two rooms and one floor away. They can tell when the lid of a cookie jar has been disturbed and notice when a quarter inch slice has been shaved off a chocolate cake. A mother can smell alcohol on your breath before you get your key in the front door and can smell cigarette smoke from a block away. By examining laundry, a mother knows more about their kids than Sherlock Holmes. And if a mother wants an answer to question, she can read an offender's eyes quicker than a homicide detective.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So... considering the value a mother could bring to an inspection </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">team, why are we sending a bunch of old men who will rely on electronic equipment to scout out hidden threats? My mother would walk in with a wooden soup spoon in one hand, grab Saddam by the ear, give it a good twist and snap, Young man, do you have any weapons of mass destruction?" And God help him if he tried to lie to her<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">She'd march him down the street to some secret bunker and shove </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">his nose into a nuclear bomb and say, "Uh, huh, and what do you call this, mister?"<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Whap! Thump! Whap! Whap! Whap! And she'd lay some stripes across his </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">bare bottom with that soup spoon, then march him home in front of the whole of Baghdad. He'd not only come clean and apologize for lying about it, he'd cut every lawn in Baghdad for free for the whole darn summer. Inspectors my butt....You want the job done?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Call m</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dennis</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What an excellent idea, to have a mother go find the weapons.Is Saddam's own mother still alive? Has anyone told her what a problem he's being? She could threaten him with "just wait until your father hears about this".</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">are you volunteering our mothers?</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dennis</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My mother-in-law could go over and straighten him out in no time.</span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
<br />
(and I mean that only with the greatest of admiration for her.)</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 1pt; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; margin-left: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-top: 0in;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My mother-in-law would have made him flee - (God love her - she was quite a character)...</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Louise S</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I wonder......if all our mothers said no and all their mothers said no do you </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">think it would work? We could take away all their toys too</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______</span></span></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yeah, and "ground" their armies - and no watching TV newscasts.... </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If it doesn't work ...at least it would be interesting to see what happens next.<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As you suggested, John, I am forwarding Oriana Fallaci's article to the </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">forum. Unfortunately, war has already begun, however, I believe it's still worth reading......<br />
<br />
I have great respect for Oriana Fallaci and her writings -<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Right after 9/11 she wrote a book called "The Rage and the Pride" which I </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">found excellent - and which caused the French to sue her for inciting racial hatred and caused Italian journalists to scream blasphemies about her...She kicks up dust - left andright - and spares no one from her seething criticism and accusations......She is an extremely well-travelled, knowledgeable journalist who knows world leaders and has personally experienced national and international political conflicts - WW2, Viet Nam, Lebanon, Palestine.... and has met and spoken at length with many world leaders.<br />
<br />
I invite anyone to comment.........<br />
<br />
The Rage, the Pride and the Doubt<br />
Wall St Journal commentaries | 3-13-03 | Oriana Fallaci<br />
<br />
NEW YORK -- To avoid the dilemma of whether this war should take place or not, to overcome the reservations and the reluctance and the doubts that still lacerate me, I often say to myself: "How good if the Iraqis would get free of Saddam Hussein by themselves. How good if they would execute him and hang up his body by the feet as in 1945 we Italians did with Mussolini." But it does not help. Or it helps in one way only. The Italians, in fact, could get free of Mussolini because in 1945 the Allies had conquered almost four-fifths of Italy. In other words, because the Second World War had taken place. A war without which we would have kept Mussolini (and Hitler) forever. A war during which the allies had pitilessly bombed us and we had died like mosquitoes. The Allies, too. At Salerno, at Anzio, at Cassino.<br />
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</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Along the road from Rome to Florence, then on the terrible Gothic Line. In </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">less than two years, 45,806 dead among the Americans and 17,500 among the English, the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the South Africans, the Indians, the Brazilians. And also the French who had chosen De Gaulle, also the Italians who had chosen the Fifth or the Eighth Army. (Can anybody guess how many cemeteries of Allied soldiers there are in Italy? More than sixty. And the largest, the most crowded, are the American ones. At Nettuno, 10,950 graves. At Falciani, near Florence, 5,811. Each time I pass in front of it and see that lake of crosses, I shiver with grief and gratitude.) There was also a National Liberation Front in Italy. A Resistance that the Allies supplied with weapons and ammunition. As in spite of my tender age (14), I was involved in the matter, I remember well the American plane that, braving anti-aircraft fire, parachuted those supplies to Tuscany. To be exact, onto Mount Giovi where one night they air-dropped commandos with the task of activating a short-wave network named Radio Cora.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ten smiling Americans who spoke very good Italian and who three months later were captured by the SS, tortured, and executed with a Florentine partisan girl: Anna Maria Enriquez-Agnoletti.<br />
<br />
Thus, the dilemma remains.<br />
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</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It remains for the reasons I will try to state. And the first one is that, </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">contrary to the pacifists who never yell against Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden and only yell against George W. Bush and Tony Blair, (but in their Rome march they also yelled against me and raised posters wishing that I'd blow up with the next shuttle, I'm told), I know war very well. I know what it means to live in terror, to run under air strikes and cannonades, to see people killed and houses destroyed, to starve and dream of a piece of bread, to miss even a glass of drinking water. And (which is worse) to be or to feel responsible for someone else's death. I know it because I belong to the Second World War generation and because, as a member of the Resistance, I was myself a soldier. I also know it because for a good deal of my life I have been a war correspondent.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Beginning with Vietnam, I have experienced </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">horrors that those who see war only through TV or the movies where blood is tomato ketchup don't even imagine. As a consequence, I hate it as the pacifists in bad or good faith never will. I loathe it. Every book I have written overflows with that loathing, and I cannot bear the sight of guns.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">At the same time, however, I don't accept the principle, or should I say the slogan, that "All wars are unjust, illegitimate." The war against Hitler and Mussolini and Hirohito was just, was legitimate. The Risorgimento wars that my ancestors fought against the invaders of Italy were just, were legitimate. And so was the war of independence that Americans fought against Britain. So are the wars (or revolutions) which happen to regain dignity, freedom. I do not believe in vile acquittals, phony appeasements, easy forgiveness. Even less, in the exploitation or the blackmail of the word Peace. When peace stands for surrender, fear, loss of dignity and freedom, it is no longer peace. It's suicide.<br />
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* * *</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
The second reason is that this war should not happen now. If just as I wish, legitimate as I hope, it should have happened one year ago. That is, when the ruins of the Towers were still smoking and the whole civilized world felt American. Had it happened then, the pacifists who never yell against Saddam or bin Laden would not today fill the squares to anathematize the United States. Hollywood stars would not play the role of Messiahs, and ambiguous Turkey would not cynically deny passage to the Marines who have to reach the Northern front. Despite the Europeans who added their voice to the voice of the Palestinians howling "Americans-got-it-good," one year ago nobody questioned that another Pearl Harbor had been inflicted on the U.S. and that the U.S. had all the right to respond. As a matter of fact, it should have happened before. I mean when Bill Clinton was president, and small Pearl Harbors were bursting abroad. In Somalia, in Kenya, in Yemen. </span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As I shall never tire of repeating, we did not need September 11 to see that the cancer was there. September 11 was the excruciating confirmation of a reality which had been burning for decades, the indisputable diagnosis of a doctor who waves an X-ray and brutally snaps: "My dear Sir, you have cancer." Had Mr. Clinton spent less time with voluptuous girls, had he made smarter use of the Oval Office, maybe September 11 would not have occurred. And, needless to say, even less would it have occurred if the first George Bush had removed Saddam with the Gulf War. For Christ's sake, in 1991 the Iraqi army deflated like a pricked balloon. It disintegrated so quickly, so easily, that even I captured four of its soldiers. I was behind a dune in the Saudi desert, all alone. Four skeletal creatures in ragged uniforms came toward me with arms raised, and whispered: "Bush, Bush." Meaning: "Please take me prisoner. I am so thirsty, so hungry." So I took them prisoner. I delivered them to the Marine in charge, and instead of congratulating me he grumbled: "Dammit! Some more?!?" Yet the Americans did not get to Baghdad, did not remove Saddam. And, to thank them, Saddam tried to kill their president. The same president who had left him in power. In fact, at times I wonder if this war isn't also a long-awaited retaliation, a filial revenge, a promise made by the son to the father. Like in a Shakespearean tragedy.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Better, a Greek one.<br />
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* * *</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The third reason is the wrong way in which the promise has materialized. Let's admit it: from September 11 until last summer, all the stress was put on bin Laden, on al Qaeda, on Afghanistan. Saddam and Iraq were practically ignored. Only when it became clear that bin Laden was in good health, that the solemn commitment to take him dead or alive had failed, were we reminded that Saddam existed too. That he was not a gentle soul, that he cut the tongues and ears of his adversaries, that he killed children in front of their parents, that he decapitated women then displayed their heads in the streets, that he kept his prisoners in cells as small as coffins, that he made his biological or chemical experiments on them too. That he had connections with al Qaeda and supported terrorism, that he rewarded the families of Palestinian kamikazes at the rate of $25,000 each. That he had never disarmed, never given up his arsenal of deadly weapons, thus the U.N. should send back the inspectors, and let's be serious: if seventy years ago the ineffective League of Nations had sent its inspectors to Germany, do you think that Hitler would have shown them Peenemünde where Von Braun was manufacturing V2s? Do you think that Hitler would have disclosed the camps of Auschwitz, of Mauthausen, Buchenwald, Dachau? Yet the inspection comedy resumed. With such intensity that the role of prima donna passed from bin Laden to Saddam, and the arrest of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the engineer of September 11, was greeted almost with indifference. A comedy marked by the double games of the inspectors and the conflicting strategies of Mr. Bush who on the one hand asked the Security Council for permission to use force and on the other sent his troops to the front. In less than two months, a quarter of a million troops. With the British and Australians, 310,000. And all this without realizing that his enemies (but I should say the enemies of the West) are not only in Baghdad.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
They are also in Europe. They are in Paris where the mellifluous Jacques Chirac does not give a damn for peace but plans to satisfy his vanity with the Nobel Peace Prize. Where there is no wish to remove Saddam Hussein because Saddam Hussein means the oil that the French companies pump from Iraqi wells. And where (forgetting a little flaw named Petain) France chases its Napoleonic desire to dominate the European Union, to establish its hegemony over it. They are in Berlin, where the party of the mediocre Gerhard Schroeder won the elections by comparing Mr. Bush to Hitler, where American flags are soiled with the swastika, and where, in the dream of playing the masters again, Germans go arm-in-arm with the French. They are in Rome where the communists left by the door and re-entered through the window like the birds of the Hitchcock movie. And where, pestering the world with his ecumenism, his pietism, his Thirdworldism, Pope Wojtyla receives Tariq Aziz as a dove or a martyr who is about to be eaten by lions. (Then he sends him to Assisi where the friars escort him to the tomb of St. Francis.) In the other European countries, it is more or less the same. In Europe your enemies are everywhere, Mr. Bush. What you quietly call "differences of opinion" are in reality pure hate. Because in Europe pacifism is synonymous with anti-Americanism, sir, and accompanied by the most sinister revival of anti-Semitism the anti-Americanism triumphs as much as in the Islamic world. Haven't your ambassadors informed you? Europe is no longer Europe. It is a province of Islam, as Spain and Portugal were at the time of the Moors. It hosts almost 16 million Muslim immigrants and teems with mullahs,imams, mosques, burqas, chadors. It lodges thousands of Islamic terrorists whom governments don't know how to identify and control. People are afraid, and in waving the flag of pacifism -- pacifism synonymous with anti-Americanism -- they feel protected.<br />
<br />
Besides, Europe does not care for the 221,484 Americans who died for her in the Second World War. Rather than gratitude, their cemeteries give rise to resentment. As a consequence, in Europe nobody will back this war. Not even nations which are officially allied with the U.S., not even the prime ministers who call you "My friend George." (Like Silvio Berlusconi.) In Europe you only have one friend, one ally, sir: Tony Blair. But Mr. Blair too leads a country which is invaded by the Moors. A country that hides that resentment. Even his party opposes him, and by the way: I owe you an apology, Mr. Blair. In my book "The Rage and the Pride," I was unfair to you. Because I wrote that you would not persevere with your guts, that you would drop them as soon as it would no longer serve your political interests. With impeccable coherence, instead, you are sacrificing those interests to your convictions. Indeed, I apologize. I also withdraw the phrase I used to comment on your excess of courtesy toward Islamic culture:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
"If our culture has the same value as the one that imposes the burqa, why do you spend your summers in my Tuscany and not in Saudi Arabia?" Now I say:<br />
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</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"My Tuscany is your Tuscany, sir. My home is your home."<br />
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The final reason for my dilemma is the definition that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair and their advisers give of this war: "A Liberation war. A humanitarian war to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq." Oh, no. Humanitarianism has nothing to do with wars. All wars, even just ones, are death and destruction and atrocities and tears. And this is not a liberation war, a war like the Second World War. (By the way: neither is it an "oil war," as the pacifists who never yell against Saddam or bin Laden maintain in their rallies. Americans do not need Iraqi oil.) It is a political war. A war made in cold blood to respond to the Holy War that the enemies of the West declared upon the West on September 11. It is also a prophylactic war. A vaccine, a surgery that hits Saddam because, (Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair believe), among the various focuses of cancer Saddam is the most obvious and dangerous one. Moreover, the obstacle that once removed will permit them to redesign the map of the Middle East as the British and the French did after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. To redesign it and to spread a Pax Romana, pardon, a Pax Americana, in which everybody will prosper through freedom and democracy. Again, no. Freedom cannot be a gift. And democracy cannot be imposed with bombs, with occupation armies. As my father said when he asked the anti-fascists to join the Resistance, and as today I say to those who honestly rely on the Pax Americana, people must conquer freedom by themselves. Democracy must come from their will, and in both cases a country must know what they consist of. In Europe the Second World War was a liberation war not because it brought novelties called freedom and democracy but because it re-established them. Because Europeans knew what they consisted of. The Japanese did not: it is true. In Japan, those two treasures were somehow a gift, a refund for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But Japan had already started its process of modernization, and did not belong to the Islamic world. As I write in my book when I call bin Laden the tip of the iceberg and I define the iceberg as a mountain that has not moved for 1,400 years, that for 1,400 years has not changed, that has not emerged from its blindness, freedom and democracy are totally unrelated to the ideological texture of Islam. To the tyranny of theocratic states. So their people refuse them, and even more they want to erase ours.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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Upheld by their stubborn optimism, the same optimism for which at the Alamo they fought so well and all died slaughtered by Santa Anna, Americans think that in Baghdad they will be welcomed as they were in Rome and Florence and Paris. "They'll cheer us, throw us flowers." Maybe. In Baghdad anything can happen. But after that? Nearly two-thirds of the Iraqis are Shiites who have always dreamed of establishing an Islamic Republic of Iraq, and the Soviets too were once cheered in Kabul. They too imposed their peace. They even succeeded in convincing women to take off their burqa, remember? After a while, though, they had to leave. And the Taliban came. Thus, I ask: what if instead of learning freedom Iraq becomes a second Talibani Afghanistan? What if instead of becoming democratized by the Pax Americana the whole Middle East blows up and the cancer multiplies? As a proud defender of the West's civilization, without reservations I should join Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair in the new Alamo. Without reluctance I should fight and die with them. And this is the only thing about which I have no doubts at all.</span></span></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
Oriana Fallaci is the author of "The Rage and the Pride" (Rizzoli International, 2002). Updated March 13, 2003<br />
</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
_________</span></span></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Scott B</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large; line-height: 21px;"><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Reminds me of an old song:<br />
<br />
Come on all you big strong men,<br />
Uncle Sam your help again.<br />
He's got himself in a terrible<br />
Way down yonder with old Saddam<br />
So put down your books,<br />
And pick up a gun,<br />
Gonna have yourselves a whole lotta fun<br />
So its 1-2-3<br />
What are we fighting for ?<br />
Don't ask me,<br />
I don't give a d--m,<br />
Say hello to Mr Saddam<br />
Ain't no time to reason why !<br />
Whoppee, we're all gonna die !<br />
</span></span><br />
</span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-21645949126529154302010-01-20T19:34:00.000-08:002010-06-16T05:04:11.012-07:00Protests & Demonstrations<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Arial; font-size: x-large;">John N</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I joined Air Force ROTC when I started at IIT in 1966. After a year, the AF gave me a scholarship, and as part of that I had to enlist. Unfortunately after my sophomore year I had to attend a training camp where my temper and big mouth got the better of me and I told a real AF Major to do something impossible. Oops. There went the scholarship, but fortunately they chose to discharge me, rather than keep me as an Airman Basic for the next 8 years. My military career resumed when I was (un)lucky enough to get number 34 in the first draft lottery. I tried for a deferment, but the government seemed to get rid of them as fast I qualified. I was even certified to teach K – 8 in Chicago – there are generations of kids who should be grateful that deferment was removed. I passed the Navy’s OCS test, but when they wouldn’t send me to nuclear power school because of my vision. I turned down the opportunity to spend 6 years installing engines in ships and enlisted in the Army to play trombone in the 5</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Army band at Ft. Sheridan. I went to basic at Ft. Lewis WA in August 1970 and somewhere in there the 5</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> Army band was dissolved. I got out of basic late because I came down with pneumonia, and then was sent to the Navy’s music school in Little Creek, VA.</span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I think music school was a 4 month gig after which my first duty assignment was at Ft. Rucker, AL near Dothan, AL where they have a statue of a boll weevil in the middle of town. Rucker was the Army’s primary helicopter training base and mostly the band played graduation ceremonies. Not that anyone could hear us with a bunch of helicopters flying overhead. The trumpeters also played a lot of funerals since the trainees didn’t always do so well learning to fly in formation at night. Rucker was my least favorite assignment given the weather, bugs, etc.</span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">In January 1972 I was sent to Germany to join the band at the Berlin Brigade stationed in the area called Lichterfeld in Berlin. The assignment there was great, even though our band leader (WO3 Howard W. Vivian) was certifiable. He’d served in Vietnam and was afraid his troops were going to frag him. He spent the majority of his time hiding in his office. I got to see the Berlin Philharmonic several times and attended opera’s in both West and East Berlin. In Berlin we practiced once a month for a Russian invasion. The band’s job was to guard the general’s plane at Templehof so he could escape. Yeah, right.</span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Around January, 1973 I was transferred to the 8</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> Infantry Division band in Bad Kreutznach. That was by far the best duty assignment. We played lots of gigs for the public (beer festivals, military band festivals, the Fasching (Mardi Gras) parade in Mainz). I got out in August 1973, spent a year at Western Illinois University getting a Business degree and have been in California ever since.</span></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> John N</span></span></span></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-86853514103308948202010-01-18T14:43:00.000-08:002010-01-26T20:33:57.008-08:00<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1MT-NpznuI/AAAAAAAABio/_PwReotcnmw/s1600-h/mustangs.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><b><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1MT-NpznuI/AAAAAAAABio/_PwReotcnmw/s320/mustangs.gif" /></span></span></b></a><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This article appeared on the front page of our local paper on</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">September 25, 2004 about my family. . .</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">COVER STORY</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think our main effort now is to curb terrorism. I’d rather face them in their backyard than in ours.' Dan Quigley</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A trying return</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">55-year-old LaPorte reservist heading to Iraq</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Daniel Quigley</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LAPORTE — When he was 17 years old in November 1966, Dan Quigley enlisted in the U.S. Army, knowing full well that he would be going to the Vietnam War.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thirty-eight years later, the husband, father of four and grandfather to four with one due in November, is on his way back to war.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Quigley, 55, sergeant in the 938 th military police in the Indiana Army National Guard located in Michigan City, will be deployed along with 44 other members of his detachment in November.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"If you have the ability to defend your country and you don't, then shame on you," the LaPorte resident said from his east side home on Wednesday.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The south-side Chicago native has long been defending his country, starting in 1966 when he chose to enter the armed forces after graduation.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I didn't want to be in the infantry. I wanted a choice of jobs," Quigley said, wearing a T-shirt boasting a U.S. flag.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So he became an aircraft engine mechanic because as he says, "I like to take things apart and put them back together."</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The second oldest of nine children began his tour of duty on Jan. 1, 1968 when he flew from California over an airstrip in Vietnam, where he was dropped from an airplane.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In less than a year's time, that experience would change him forever.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I saw a lot of death and destruction," Quigley, a door gunner at times on a helicopter gunship, said.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He returned to the U.S. in December 1968, and despite widespread sentiment against the war and U.S. soldiers, he remained patriotic.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"(The Vietnam War) reinforced my love of the U.S. and of home," he said.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bonnie changes everything</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That tumultuous period of combat left him standoffish and resistant to growing close to anyone. That would slowly change after meeting Bonnie at a graduation party in June of 1969. The two, who only lived a mile apart from each other and went to high school together, met for the first time that summer.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"It was magical for me. I think it was for the both of us," Bonnie said as she looked over at Dan sitting at the kitchen table.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Placed on inactive reserve from '69 to '74, Quigley didn't see any military action. The two would marry the following year in 1970 and settle in LaPorte in 1974. The playful and affectionate banter between the two is obvious. "You're a knucklehead," he tenderly jokes. "I know it," Bonnie replies with her trademark smile bursting from her face. While Bonnie was a stay-at-home mom raising four children, Joe, Katy, Rose and Kevin, Dan provided an income by working multiple jobs over the years. "He can do everything. He's amazing," Bonnie said.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He's a cabinetmaker, a car salesman, he knows roofing, electrical and plumbing and for the last 16 years he's performed maintenance for Mayes Management in LaPorte.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Life on alert</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In 1989, with a job he liked and four kids at home, Dan re- entered the military, this time in the Indiana Army National Guard in the 113 th Combat Engineers, so he could obtain the retirement benefits. Eighteen months ago, he joined the 45-person military police unit in Michigan City.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">For more than two years he's been on military alert — a status that has been on the concerned minds of his family and friends.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"It's kind of a strain on everybody. We like our lifestyle here," Bonnie said.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then last week the news finally came: Dan's commanding officer e-mailed him saying that he and the others would be deployed to the</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Middle East.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's not something that Dan, who's a blend of tough cool and sly funny, is afraid to face. The main mission, he said, has been accomplished in training Iraqi military and police, but he</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">acknowledges there is still much work to be done.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I think our main effort now is to curb terrorism. I'd rather face them in their backyard than in ours," says Dan, wearing a straight face. "They had a civilization run by thugs and now it's law and order. I like the freedom they are experiencing in Afghanistan and I hope to see that spread to other (Middle Eastern) nations."</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While in the Middle East, Dan said his detachment would be responsible for a variety of security tasks, including traffic control and protecting dignitaries on visits.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's evident that Dan appears mentally and psychologically ready for the task that waits ahead of him.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"It's an adventure. I'm privileged to be in good health, which will enable me to do this," he said.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While Bonnie believes her husband is also prepared, she continues to cringe at the thought of him spending nine to 15 months in harm's way.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I'm really concerned," she says as she looks upon her husband of 34 years. "(But) I think there's a place for older, mature men in the military because of the guidance they can provide.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I just never thought this was something I would have to face."</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While it's quite common for twenty something soldiers to leave their wives and children behind for the Middle East, a man in his</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">50s with a wife, children and grandchildren leaving for the same place just quite isn't.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I like him the way he is. And I would like for him to come back the way he is," she said.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Asked if he's afraid of death, Dan responded, "No. I'm not scared. The law of averages plays into it. If your number is up, it's up. That's the only way you can maintain sanity."</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Now comes the hardship for the Quigley family of preparing to say goodbye to the patriarch.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bonnie, an employee of the La-Porte County Prosecutor's Office and community theater director, is well aware that she has a solid</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">support system in place when Dan heads overseas.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"If this should happen to someone, it's me," says the gregarious Bonnie. "I got the children, grandchildren and tons of friends."</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Her network of friends and family are within walking distance of her home.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">His son, Joe, who served nine years active duty in the Air Force, is proud of his father.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"My dad carries his duty first. He's ready," said Joe, 33, husband and father of two. "I think my father and I agree about the nature of duty for a soldier; about what that contract, that</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">obligation means."</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dan's daughter, Rose Lees, 29, says since she, her husband and two children, Jillian and Sam, see him everyday, it will be very difficult to see her father leave for months.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I hate to see him leave behind his children and grandchildren," says Rose. "I'm going to miss him terribly. We are so close. We hear</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">his truck going by in the morning and Jillian asks where is he going."</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie K</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">War isn't just for the young guys</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bonnie (and anyone else interested);</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Going along with what you were talking about I don't know how many know of this. Jim Alexander (67) stayed in the Army Reserve and has been activated since Jan, 2004. I just talked to Jim last week. He's at Ft. Benning, GA and is 1st. Sgt. for his Company. He was told it was initially going to be a one year deployment. It looks like the one year will now be extended by another 9 months. As with most reservists, Jim had to leave his job and wife and 4 kids to be deployed.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As Bonnie's memo said 55 is a little too old to be fighting wars. But Jim says he is up at 4:00 AM everyday and then P.T. and a two mile run and 14 hour days. Alex sure took a turn since the days we use to cut school and drink all afternoon. But, he said he may come down here if he gets some leave time in Nov.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Al L</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In the current Iraq war, the number of wounded to dead is about ten to one. This is far different from the U.S. experience in Vietnam or even the Soviets in Afghan. There, the ratios were wounded to dead of about three or four to one. Medical care for wounded is SO good now, that a whole lot of guys, and women too now, are coming back with horrific wounds that would have previously killed them. Lots of troops losing limbs and surviving with prosthesis and a lot of rehab. And a lot of wounded dying from shrapnel wounds from roadside bombs striking under the armpit where the body armor does not protect. Strangely enough, during the time, centuries ago now, of the rapier and dagger era, as described in some of Shakespeare's plays, the most common wound that would kill was a strike under the armpit. Your lung is pierced and you bleed to death slow.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ron R</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jan,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks for the invitation to speak of our lives since Empehi. I’m struggling with the desire to give you the cutesy, sanitized version of mine, but I’d be doing what I did at Clissold and MPHS, and a few other places……hiding.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So here’s the real story, edited to fit your screen. Most of us grew up in nice houses on nice streets in a nice neighborhood…..I’m no exception. As they say, beauty is only skin</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">deep……What went on inside my house during my Clissold and early Empehi years wasn’t nice. In fact it was criminal, but back then schools didn’t stick their noses into home like they do now, and the Police weren’t much better. A familiar story….violent, abusive</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">alcoholic dad and co-dependant mom. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The message constantly sent to my brother, sister and I….”You’re no *ucking good”…..my job in Clissold and MP……and later……keep you from finding out. My years at Clissold and MP were scary and painful, to put it mildly. Added to the normal angst of growing up was the constant fear you all would find out about me. I don’t have to tell you how that all played out on a daily basis….you were there. It never felt to me like I belonged anywhere. A chance (?) encounter with Mr. Hurst in sophomore year, and an invitation to skip boy’s chorous</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">and go straight to A Capella kept me from dropping out….and probably saved my sorry ass. Those years in room 101, the concerts,</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">the road trips, the nights at Melody Lane, were the best. It gave me some hope that maybe dad was wrong.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I spent a lot of time at the firehouse on Homewood, too….It was safe there….they didn’t chase me out. It was like they knew. I</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">found out years later that they DID know.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Their sheltering set the stage for a 30 year career. After graduation I went fulltime with CFD, ‘til I enlisted in the U.S. Navy. I ended up like John Wayne, in the Fighting Seabees, in</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">beautiful downtown Vietnam. I was detached to MAC-V, and spent 18 months flying around I and II Corps fixing communications equipment for the CIA (who, by the way, wasn’t there), getting shot at, mortared, rocketed, and very addicted to pot and booze. When I got home, I went back to the fire service in the northern suburbs,and also opened an electrical contracting company. Like my father, I excelled at my work…..but failed at everything else.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The addictions progressed until 1978, when I came out of a blackout to find myself in a locked room with no idea what happened or where I’d been for the past week. Two wives and a daughter had come and gone in my life, what few friends I had left.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was given a choice….change or die. I wasn’t sure I could change, but I was also sure I didn’t want to die. With the support of my</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">boss and a host of other alkies, I got sober and life got better. My career in the FD and my contracting business progressed nicely.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Relationships improved, too, but the wounds of the past would not be denied, and continued to interfere in everyday life.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In 1995 I was invited to do a men’s weekend with the New Warrior Community. What happened to me on that weekend, and in the years following would prove to be life-changing beyond my wildest dreams. In a nutshell, I was given the opportunity to dive head-first into the</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">secrets I’d been keeping my whole life, to take ownership of those shadows, and heal the shame I carried, and most of all, to stop</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hiding.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Esther, my wife of 19 years, did a weekend for women shortly after I did mine, and the change in our relationship has been dramatic. Today we both are actively engaged in the community, serving on the staffs of these men’s and women’s weekends, helping men and women begin to heal the wounds inflicted on them long ago.</span></span><br />
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</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I left the fire service in 1994 after 30+ years. I’m glad I was there, but I don’t miss it.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I spend my time running my electronics business, working with adolescents who, like me, had no one to turn to to help them grow up, teaching 3rd and 4th year electrical apprentices, keeping exotic birds who make me laugh on a daily basis, hanging out with my partner at our 2nd home in northern Wisconsin.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jan, I have vivid recollections of you, Jan Ann, Sally Wilton, Susie Snow, and the others on the sidelines of Gately Stadium on those wonderful fall afternoons when we gathered to cheer on the “Pumkinheads” of Empehi….I’m looking forward to the reunion..especially since I won’t have to spend any time or energy</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hiding……….</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks to all of you who are working so hard to make this happen!!!!!!!!!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ron R</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Class of ‘65</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText">__________________<br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jan M.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wow, Ron!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Real life is better than a novel - especially when the story is told from the heart, like yours. It is so hard to talk about something</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">until you work through it. Your struggle and triumph help us all. Perhaps it is your struggle for self-esteem that encouraged you to choose paths that help others. Thank you for your service to our country and your work at the Fire Department. You've earned a gold star. You've made a difference.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm looking forward to seeing you at the reunion.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText">___________________<br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Judy H W</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was the summer of '69 and it was my 21st birthday...my (then) husband was in Thailand (like Vietnam, only he didn't get hazardous</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">duty pay or R and R) and I was in Chicago with my seven month old daughter. What a party we had to celebrate the achievements of Apollo 11 and little old me.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just what I needed tonight was an e-mail from AOL reminding me that the best birthday party I ever had was 36 YEARS AGO!</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kindly do not further depress me with belated birthday wishes. You can only celebrate the 17th anniversary of your 40th birthday for one day!</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One small step for mankind -- it still gives me chills!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"21 in 69" -- why did we think that was SO COOL? Huh, Storms?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Barbary Apes of Gibraltar</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie wrote,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"The apes are quite free roaming the "rock" and also coming down into the town.... People sometimes find them in their houses....."</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I have been to Gibraltar and observed the Barbary apes. They are actually monkeys, and cute, but mischievous.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The legend has it that the British will always be in Gibraltar as long as the apes are there. So England tries to keep them happy and thriving.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Spanish would like the British out of Gibraltar, and presumably the monkeys, if that is what it takes.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We had monkeys in Vietnam that we called "Rock Apes" Supposedly they would throw rocks at the troops. I never saw that, but I did see a large troop of them walking on a jungle trail on a ridge line. There was one large monkey leading the group, and another large one that was near the end of the line, keeping all of them together.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My parents spent 3 months in India, on a volunteer project helping a company improve. A company similar to one my Dad worked for, so that he could help them plan their modernization.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The company put my parents up in a nice home, with five servants, but no screens. 4 or 5 very large monkeys invaded the home. My Dad tried to bluff the monkeys back out of the house. They were not easy to bluff, and for a time he thought he was going to have a serious fight. But they finally retreated.</span></span><br />
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</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText">________________<br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Chuck H June 65</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I too was very fortunate to see a lot of Vietnam and found it so beautiful, I did a lot of traveling and all for the Air Force and saw the good and the bad...but the good was certainly beautiful!! I'd go back in a heartbeat myself!</span></span><br />
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__________________<br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ron R</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I saw A LOT of the country.......calling it the Switzerland of Asia doesn’t do it justice. I'd go back there in a second just to sit on China Beach again.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Buti</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My son just finished reading a book by Tiziano Terzani, an Italian journalist, who covered the war in Viet Nam and then returned in the 80's to visit the country again....in the book he called Viet Nam the "Switzerland of Indo-China" because of its landscape....I never heard that before....did you? From films and documentaries it just seemed like a lot of swamp and jungle...</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> ...anyone been there recently?</span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Most of the Chicago area Reserve Marines are now on active duty in Iraq, including my old units. This article in the Tribune today tells their story well. Most of the Reserves area a little older than the active duty folks, and a little more experienced. Interesting article below.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Chicago GIs join Iraqis in community policing duty</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">By Rick Jervis</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Tribune staff reporter</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Published October 3, 2004</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">MAHMOUDIYA, Iraq -- Capt. Guillermo Rosales has seen it before: tough guys using threats and terror to cower neighborhoods.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">To Rosales, the tactics used by Islamic insurgents in this southern suburb of Baghdad are strangely reminiscent of those used by gang members in Pilsen, his old Chicago neighborhood. There, he said, they used drive-bys and 9 mm handguns. Here they use car bombs and assault rifles.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"It's just a bad neighborhood," said Rosales, 35, a platoon commander with the 2nd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment. "Back then, I couldn't go to the playground or the store for fear of getting shot. That doesn't change until the community gets together and does something about it."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Rosales, a Marine reservist who lives in Chicago and works for Motorola Corp., leads 43 Marines in the Combined Action Platoon, charged with bringing community policing to hostile pockets of Iraq. CAP Marines are in charge of befriending and sometimes living with residents to try to earn their trust, cultivate intelligence sources and help local militias fight the enemy.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Known as "the Peace Corps with guns," the CAP program--created during the Vietnam War--was touted as one of the more successful counterinsurgency efforts in that conflict.</span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">In Vietnam the Marines lived in villages. In Iraq they mingle with the U.S.-trained Iraqi National Guard.</span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The CAP Marines in this region, however, are made up entirely of Chicago-area reservists. One of the platoon sergeants is a Tinley Park plumber. A rifleman is a Purdue University student from East Chicago, Ind. There are two Chicago-area bartenders, two Chicago police officers and one Cook County sheriff's deputy.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"It's pretty different from sitting in a police car," said Lance Cpl. Josh Bowers, 26, a patrol officer with the Chicago Police Department's 25th District. "But you use the same skills: observation, being aware of your surroundings."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Immersion strategy</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The CAP platoon arrived in Iraq two weeks ago and rapidly started to get to know the local Iraqi guard's 507th Battalion. The bulk of their days are spent with the Iraqis at their base more than half a mile down Highway 8 from the Marine base.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The Marines arrive early in the morning and share a breakfast of cheese, jams, pita bread and sweet hot tea with their Iraqi counterparts. They oversee rifle-range practice and drill the Iraqis on basic combat techniques. But mostly, they said, they try to pass along good habits, such as cutting down on unauthorized absences and keeping their fingers off the triggers of their rifles while on their base.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"We're still trying to teach them to button their top button and holster their gun," said Lance Cpl. Scott Leck, 25, an officer with the Chicago Police Department's 22nd District.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sometimes the Marines spend the night with the Iraqis, teaching how to combat ambushes or conduct night patrols, Marine officials said. Through all this, there are cultural exchanges--and cultural differences.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Bowers said he commonly spends night shifts in a watchtower at the Iraqi guard base with a guardsman.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"They always ask about my wife--they want to see a picture of her," he said. "I never want to show them one."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">A central challenge for the Marines has been developing trust of their Iraqi colleagues. Many police and security personnel throughout Iraq have switched sides and joined insurgencies, oftentimes turning their guns on coalition forces, or have leaked sensitive information to rebels.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Marines here have launched combined missions--called "jump patrols"--with the Iraqi National Guard in insurgent hotbeds such as nearby Latifiyah, only to find all the men in the households gone for the day, Marine and Iraqi officials said.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"You have to watch what you say around them," Lance Cpl. Brett Maddix, 26, a Cook County sheriff's deputy, said of the Iraqi guardsmen. "We don't even tell them when we're coming to train them."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Nonetheless, jump patrols are at the heart of the CAP mission in Iraq, both as a training tool for the Iraqi guard and as a way for the Marines to interact with the community.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Diligence pays off </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Last week, Marine officials received intelligence that insurgents were planning to attack a Marine convoy with a car bomb. That morning, Rosales gathered 12 Marines and seven Iraqi guardsmen to check cars and glean information from residents in an industrial area near the Iraqi guard base.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The troops poked through car trunks at an auto-repair shop, then crossed a small bridge and entered the courtyard of a three-story villa. At first the family—a woman with two young girls and a young boy--shrugged off any mention of weapons or bombs. But after chatting with Rosales for a few minutes, the boy led the Marines to an undetonated 81 mm mortar shell in a pomegranate grove behind the home.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Rosales asked the boy his name in broken but comprehensible Arabic, which he said he learned in a crash course at Camp Pendleton, Calif., before coming to Iraq.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"Farenz," the boy answered.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"Shukran," Rosales said, shaking the boy's hand. Thank you.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Later, the patrol team came to a nearby home where a man in his 20s was chained by his left wrist to the security bars of one of the windows. Through an interpreter, Rosales asked a woman at the home why the man was shackled.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"Because the woman he loves is no good, she's a whore," said the woman, who said she was the man's mother.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">After a few more questions, Rosales thanked her and signaled the Marines to move on.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"Tell her," he told the interpreter, "I'm going to tell my mom what moms in this country do for their sons."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Motivation an obstacle</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">As Rosales spoke with residents, Sgt. Brian Malloy barked orders at the Iraqi guardsmen and some of his own Marines, moving them into cover positions, making sure they were watching suspicious-looking cars and telling them to carry their rifles correctly. One Iraqi guardsman asked if the mission was going to be over soon.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"It's rough," said Malloy, a Tinley Park plumber who had the words "South Side" scrawled on his helmet strap in black marker. "They're combat-ready; they just don't seem to have the motivation we have. I'm not sure they all want to be here."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Though still struggling to bring their troops up to Marine standards and adapt to U.S.-style management, Iraqi guard officials said they were grateful for the Marine know-how and military muscle.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"We know they leave their families and come from far away to help us," guard Sgt. Maj. Asan Sadown said. "We didn't have any freedom before. We hope to see a new and better Iraq with the Marines."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">There still are obstacles to overcome and trust to gain. Marines remain distrustful of the Iraqis and still travel around their base in twos--to meetings, training drills, even the bathroom. And the Iraqis still rely heavily on the Marines for firepower and guidance to beat back insurgents who have threatened and killed residents and recently blew up the local police station--demands that fall mostly on Rosales.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"I tell them I understand," he said.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Matt Vanick spelled his name differently, and he passed away in 2005 according to the Reunion Book. I remember having a long conversation with him about his service in Vietnam at one of the 1966 reunions, probably the 20th.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">______________ </span></o:p><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam Vets on the Vietnam Memorial Wall</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">A good Marine friend of mine, Master Gunnery Sergeant Andy Ryal saw his buddy Reggie Baker get badly wounded in Khe Son, Vietnam. Reggie was medevaced. Andy heard that Reggie died. He confirmed this years later by checking the Vietnam Memorial Wall.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">A number of years later Andy and I met Cook County Judge and Marine Reserve Colonel Reggie Baker, who survived the war quite nicely. Andy was shocked and very pleasantly surprised. The rumors of Reggie's death had been greatly exaggerated. Another Marine Reggie Baker had died.</span><o:p></o:p><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div></span><br />
</div></span><br />
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-43193685070505341012010-01-18T14:36:00.000-08:002010-01-26T01:05:27.459-08:00Little Bundle of Joy Many Years Later<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><br />
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<o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span></o:p><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The internet is endlessly fascinating. Below is an email letter written by a man looking for the man who fathered his sister. He found my father from a web page where we posted my Dad's story about his World War II experience. I changed the name to protect the innocent (or guilty, we do not know for sure).</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Incidently, this is an example of a Reserve unit and individuals called to active duty for 4 years with service in Ireland, North Africa, and Italy.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And it is another word of warning to you other guys who may have committed youthful indescretions. Your little bundle of joy may show up on your doorstep 63 years after the act of commission.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dear Clif,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was with great interest that I read the piece in the military.Comweb site posted by Craig.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I come from that part of the world, born at a place called Cherrymount near Enniskillen then moved to Trory then Laragh, places that you may have traveled through to get to Enniskillen. My Father and Uncle used to haul the materials to make the airfield at St Angelo near Rossahilly, on the way to Killadeas..</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Anyway, the REAL reason for writing is to try and finalise a family mystery that has beset my sister for the past 63 years and that is (now that my Mother has died) that my sister's Father was an American (engineer we think) called V________.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was only a year before she died that my Mother divulged his name but as she was only 16 at the time and as it was so long ago, she couldn't remember where V_____ came from.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I am just dropping this e-mail to you in the hope that MAYBE he was one of the 109th. I have tried for 5 years to track him down mainly to give closure' to my sister and, maybe, if he is still with us, to make contact with V_______.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If you could help in any way, Clif, we would be most grateful.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Regards</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ben</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hi Ben: After my first response that V______ was apparently not in the 109th Engineers, I took another look in a book about the SD National Guard. In addition to the Engineers, there was also the 109th Quartermaster Bn. that was part of the 34th Div and went to Northern Ireland and at least part of them were stationed in or near Enniskillen. In their Company C which was mobilized out of Pierre, SD was a V ________. It says that he was in Northern Island and on to North Africa and was wounded in Bologna, Italy, transferred to Hospital and returned to the U. S. Since the war was almost over when we got to Bologna, almost anyone who had been in since 1941 might have been sent directly home. The 34th was deactivated in Italy about that time.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If you think the possibility that V__________ might be the scoundrel in this case, I can xerox the pertinent pages from the book. It would probably take some detailed dectective work to pin it down but Pierre is a small city and their should be people or records that might be available.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Clif Hullinger</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span> <br />
<a href="http://109thengineers34thdivision.blogspot.com/"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://109thengineers34thdivision.blogspot.com/</span></span></a><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Gulp.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-30779627652878988222010-01-18T14:24:00.000-08:002010-01-20T19:13:44.539-08:00Japanese American Internment World War II<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span> <br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was a senior in college, taking a grad course in Constitutional Law, when I first learned about this disgraceful mistreatment of Japanese Americans, most of whom were American citizens by birth. Most midwesterners that I've asked about this were similarly unaware until they grew up and moved to California.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think that part of the reason why this has not been more publicly discussed is that people who were actually interned chose not to talk about it even with their own children.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A few years ago I researched this for an as-yet-unpublished children's book I was writing. A documentary called "Children of the Camps" featured six Japanese-Americans who were interned as children and was particularly poignant. There aren't many books about this experience written by people who went through it.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The 442nd Infantry Regiment was comprised of young men who went from the internment camps directly to boot camp. (Their family members remained in camp.) It sustained high losses in Europe and was one of the most highly decorated regiments in US history.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">For the most part, the people who were allowed to leave the camps to work went to prearranged jobs in the eastern US. When the war ended, many of them chose to stay rather than return to California. (California has a particularly nasty history of denying such rights as property ownership to Asian-Americans.)</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The camp at Manzanar was photographed by Ansel Adams and Dorothea Lange, among others. It is now open as a National Historic Site under the National Park Service. I haven't been there, but the photographs show a site that is simultaneously desolate and beautiful.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I just discovered a wonderful website, essentially an online book, that I wish had been available when I was doing my research:</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/anthropology74/index.htm"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/anthropology74/index.htm</span></span></a><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy, there is a beautifully poignant film that was made on the subject of Japanese Americans and the terrible sad injustices they incurred during and after WWII - "Snow Falls on the Cedars" (that's how the title translates from the Italian) I don't know what the original title was in English...did you see it?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________ </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fGJWO-r2I/AAAAAAAABmU/GNwEJRqa5M0/s1600-h/Japanese+Internment.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="218" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fGJWO-r2I/AAAAAAAABmU/GNwEJRqa5M0/s320/Japanese+Internment.jpg" width="320" /></a><br />
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fGQMFEOeI/AAAAAAAABmc/HzO735wG1N4/s1600-h/Japanese+us_internment_camp_arkansas_1942.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="222" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fGQMFEOeI/AAAAAAAABmc/HzO735wG1N4/s320/Japanese+us_internment_camp_arkansas_1942.jpg" width="320" /></a><br />
</div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My family celebrated XMAS and Thanksgiving with a Japanese American family for many years. Etsu and Henry were living in California, and both interned in WW II with their families when they were teenagers. They never talked about it until President Regan apologized and signed a bill providing $20,000 to each internee or their heirs.</span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Etsu then produced an amazing mimeographed Welcome Aboard brochure from her camp. It welcomed the internees to the Camp and explained the rules. The front illustration was of the camp surrounded by barbed wire, watch towers, and barracks.</span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Their families lost everything when they had to move with a few days notice from their homes to the camps.</span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This episode is a blight on America, and something we regret.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That said, however, these camps were nothing like the gulags of the Soviet Union. People were not murdered or tortured. They worked and went to school. Henry would probably have been in the Army - but he was not forced to serve, and he elected not to serve his country that had mistreated him.</span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Etsu actually joined the Army and served in Japan as a Nurse. I am sure there had to be a great deal of confusion - A Japanese American Army Officer who could not speak Japanese.</span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The 100th Battalion, which later was merged into the 442 Regiment, was composed of Japanese Americans. They were the most decorated unit in World War II in the American Army. They were attached to my fathers World War II Division in Italy.</span></span><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-88396266604218632972010-01-18T14:22:00.000-08:002010-05-24T10:58:50.815-07:00Communism<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hi there Craig,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In several of your posts now, you're mentioned that we are entering WWIV. Um Craig,... there never was a WWIII. You suggested, (affirmatively I might add) that the war on Communism was WWIII. I took graduate World History in 1996 and I can tell you first hand, there was no WWIII mentioned in the text I was assigned (Harvard published in 1989). World War constitutes just that....the World. It seems to me that the World did not engage in that fight against Communism, only Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, (zilch Carter) and Reagan....and oh yes, McCarthy.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So, WWIII hasn't occurred Craig and hopefully never will.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig replies</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fB424N6SI/AAAAAAAABl8/nPlbyxWl8I0/s1600-h/Bunker.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fB424N6SI/AAAAAAAABl8/nPlbyxWl8I0/s400/Bunker.jpg" width="372" /></a></div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well, don't call it WW 3 if that offends you. The conflict among the communist countries and the west lasted from about 1945 to about 1989, and still goes on a bit, and convulsed a large part of the world, and resulted in many millions of deaths. And a lot of us thought it was a pretty big deal.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We stopped the expansion of Communism. It was a very bad system. I have been to a number of communist countries, and they were not pleasant, especially for the citizens of those countries.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We did not have to fight wars. We could have surrendered to the Japanese and Nazis, or the Communists. We could have become Nazi supermen, or a Japanese colony, or Communist. Or we could continue to turn the other cheek, and hope that the tyrants will tire of killing our people and leave us alone. There are always choices other than war.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Communism was pretty bad. The following are taken from several sources. Perhaps they overstate the numbers - who knows? Hard thing to count very accurately. But I think even you and your author of your Harvard Published History Book (1989) would agree that the Communists were just a bit over the top. Or perhaps not.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">TYRANT KILLINGS - UNJUST, UNNECESSARY OR UNNATURAL DEATHS</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The US has been engaged in three major conflicts during the lives of our parents. There are of course many varying estimates of unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths committed by tyrants, but these estimates appear reasonable.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There is considerable overlap in the generations. For the purposes of this discussion, written from the view point of a baby boomer, the generations are our Grandparents born around 1880-1900, our Parents born around 1910-1925, we early Baby Boomers born around 1946-1953, and our children, born around 1968-1985.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">World War II 1941 - 1945 Directed by our grand parents, fought by our parents.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hitler 34,000,000 killings</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hirohito (Japan: 1926-89) 1,000,000 over a million unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hirota Koki (Japan: 1936-37) 1,000,000 " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Struggle with Communism 1945 -1989, and to present. Directed by our parents, fought by us, mostly cold war, hot war in Greece, Vietnam, Korea, Central America, Africa, Asia</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Stalin 20,000,000 to 60,000,000 unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths killings</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Mao 10,000,000 to 76,000,000 unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths killings</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ho Chi Minh (North Vietnam:1945-69) 1,700,000 over a million unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kim Il Sung (North Korea:1948-94) 1,000,000 " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Lenin (USSR: 1917-24) 1,000,000 " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Pol Pot (Cambodia: 1975-79) 1,700,000 " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">China ((75 to present) ? ? Little outside reporting</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam (75 to present) ? ? " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Laos ? ? " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Tibet ? ? ' "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cuba ? ? " "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1c6CEz3LxI/AAAAAAAABl0/4e637H_TOT8/s1600-h/democide.GIF" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1c6CEz3LxI/AAAAAAAABl0/4e637H_TOT8/s640/democide.GIF" width="388" /></a></div><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sources</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/</a></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm">http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm</a></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm">http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm</a></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/">http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/</a></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://users.erols.%20com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm">http://users.erols. com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm</a></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It doesn't offend me that you consider the Cold War WWIII, if that's your understanding. Your understanding is not historically accepted. The Cold War was and is a big deal, but just that....a Cold War. The Cold War also had a sub title, It's known as the Arms Race. Who had the biggest, baddest and made the biggest boom on the world block, was the prevailing mental headset in Washington and Moscow.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's rather factitious Craig, in your stating... "We stopped the expansion of Communism." We had a PART in it, but we did not single-handedly stop the expansion of Communism. Many countries did their part also in haulting, as well as disrupting the communistic process. Albania and the former Yugoslavia immediately come to mind. There are others.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, I find it extremely discomforting the United States citizens' notion that we are superior to everyone else. We seem to think that the world is our treadmill and thus act accordingly. We display an 'Our way, or the Highway' mentality. Just who the hell are we, to tell another country how they should govern themselves? Contrary to most American's thinking, we have NOT set the best example and continue to set ignorant precidence. I am ashamed and embarassed at what this country has become. On September 11 this country passionately joined hands with the rest of the world and we held our heads up high. In our eagerness and to take revenge and prove that we can stand up against terrorism, we released the comforting hands of our friends and neighbors around the globe. Fighting terrorism with terrorism, only breeds a resolve in propogating more terrorism. For every innocent Iraqi citizen who falls victim</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">to a marine bullet, the survivors of that victim become won over to the cause of fighting against those that injured their family, their country and their religious beliefs.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Fools rush in, where angels fear to tread. America has embarked on a long and arduous journey, for which she will pay dearly...in lives and in credibility.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - It is good to know that Albania and Yugoslavia helped us stop international Communism. Professor Rummel cites Yugoslavia as one of the mega murder countries.</span></span><br />
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fCRw8mygI/AAAAAAAABmE/iRLJeJxoC9Y/s1600-h/Guard+Tower+TSC-15+Van.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fCRw8mygI/AAAAAAAABmE/iRLJeJxoC9Y/s400/Guard+Tower+TSC-15+Van.jpg" width="377" /></a></div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I fell into a great deal in 1979. The Marine Corps Reserves sent me to Oberamergau, Germany to study Electronic Warfare. I traveled with my Commanding Officer. We were the only Reserves - everyone else was full time military from a variety of NATO countries - Germany, England, Holland, Belgium, Italy, etc. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The class was great - learned a lot about Electronic Warfare, NATO, and our allies.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">All the other officers treated the two weeks as a normal duty - they stayed around the base. My boss and I rented a car, and drove around like crazy. We decided to sneak behind the iron curtain. We hid everything that showed that we were military, attending a Secret EW Course. We tried first to get into czechoslavakia - a grim entry, with a telephone pole serving as their border gate - swinging into their country - designed to keep their people in, not us out. Grim place - would not let us in.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Next we tried Hungary. They made us cool our jets for 3 hours - took our car for 2 hours, then let us in.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We drove around Hungary- another grim poor place. There were Russian and Hugarian troops - they did not like each other. We went to a grim hotel with a little old lady safeguarding each floor. The bar was filled with angry soldiers looking for a fight.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We left Hungary to go into Yugoslavia - the border between Communist Hungary and Communist Yugoslavia was heavily guarded - felt like a free place relative to Hungary. I did kind of dumb prank there - in an area filled with Communist troops - went into the washroom -put a Marine Corps Decal on the mirror to let them know we had been there.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Incidentally, the border between Yugoslavia and the west was not guarded well - the Communists knew they had nothing to fear from the west. They had great security between the Communist "allies".</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When we got back to the base we really wanted to tell our fellow officers where we had been - but did not dare. We asked them if any of them had ever been behind the Iron Curtain - no they said, would not dare, out would come the rubber hoses and torture.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My boss and I did not talk about this for a number of years, but I presume I am beyond the reach of the long arm of the US government - I hope. Don't tell anyone.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"></span></span></span></div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"That said, genocide however did not accompany every communistic take over (Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Central America), at least not to the extent with which had occurred in Cambodia, whereby the entire population was at risk and not just the educated elite.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________ </span></span></o:p></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Why do you think Cuba, Vietnam, and Korea killed any fewer than Cambodia? They were equally bad. The same evil regimes that initially took power are still in power in those three countries. They were and are police states. They are totalitarian regimes who do not let the media or the UN look into their internal affairs. Pretty hard to get an accurate count of the countless murders committed by these evil regimes.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Professor Rummel cites every researcher on this tragic subject at</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/POSTWWII.HTMat">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/POSTWWII.HTMat</a></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He writes:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Few deny any longer that communism--Marxism-Leninism and its variants--meant in practice bloody terrorism, deadly purges, lethal gulags and forced labor, fatal deportations, man-made famines, extrajudicial executions and show trials, and genocide. It is also widely known that as a result millions of innocent people have been murdered in cold blood. Yet there has been virtually no concentrated statistical work on what this total might be.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fCxOIlH5I/AAAAAAAABmM/Nm95X5z8CvU/s1600-h/Rock+Ape+Trail.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fCxOIlH5I/AAAAAAAABmM/Nm95X5z8CvU/s400/Rock+Ape+Trail.jpg" width="371" /></a></div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Finally, at the extreme of totalitarian power we have the greatest extreme of democide. Communist governments have almost without exception wielded the most absolute power and their greatest killing (such as during Stalin's reign or the height of Mao's power) has taken place when they have been in their own history most totalitarian. As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization and a loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the pace of killing dropped off sharply.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked. But there is a larger lesson to be learned from this horrendous sacrifice to one ideology. That is that no one can be trusted with power. The more power the center has to impose the beliefs of an ideological or religious elite or impose the whims of a dictator, the more likely human lives are to be sacrificed. This is but one reason, but perhaps the most important one, for fostering liberal democracy. "</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">They were pretty bad, but not genocide. As far as Cuba is concerned. For many years now, Cuba/Fidel Castro has posed no threat to the USA and yet, we continue our economic restrictions against this little island. Enough is enough. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I will give you Cuba, who only murdered 73,000 people. I think you should acknowledge North Korea and North Vietnam.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The midpoint of Professor Rummel's civilian death by government estimates are:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cuba 73,000</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">North Korea 1,663,000</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cambodia 2,035,000</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">North Vietnam 2,500,000</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A million murders here, a million murders there, pretty soon you are talking genocide. </span></span></div></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My family and I were in Berlin the summer after the Wall came down – I remember seeing Russian soldiers on the street in front of the Branderburg Gate selling all they had - hats, medals, gloves... anything...so they could make enough money to buy a train ticket to return home to Russia – obviously the occupational Army was disbanded and left these soldiers to fare for themselves in Berlin....</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We bought a piece of the wall for $1 - and a Russian fur cap...</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The bus trip into East Berlin was really sobering - passing freely through Checkpoint Charlie and the abandoned watch tower, seeing the barbed wire and grave stones of those who had died trying to escape just beyond the wall on the eastern side - the contrast between modern West Berlin and grey, run-down high-rises in East Berlin where the most beautiful architectural churches still stood in tact - was a like a trip in a time machine... The man-made brick wall is down...man-made walls are still sadly going up.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taffy</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In the summer of 1972, we went to Europe with the kind of carefree attitude that I can't imagine having ever again. We didn't have much money, either, but Europe was still cheap.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We picked up a new VW Superbeetle at the factory in Wolfsburg, near the East German border. It came with about half a cup of gasoline, just enough to get around to the front of the factory where Volkswagen had gas pumps.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then we went to Berlin. We were issued special East German traveler license plates at the border, and had a devil of a time explaining when one of them fell off somewhere en route. It was just our first misstep.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">West Berlin was amazing -- a thriving, booming place characterized by hearty German appetites and obsessive German cleanliness. (I can say these things because I am half German, though it is my Irish quarter that is really pushy and tends to predominate.)</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We walked into East Berlin, changing a (required) small amount of deutschmarks into whatever the East German currency was. We were warned as we entered not to take any photographs of transportation or political material.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was grim from the beginning. As Marie noticed decades later, it was like stepping through a time machine. Rubble lay as if World War II had ended a week earlier. The buildings still standing were dilapidated and it was a real chore to figure out how to spend that East German money, which we knew would not be exchangeable on return. We went to a museum that had the tiled/mosaic walls from (I think) Nebuchadnezzar's palace. They were set up along the walls of the museum, and seemed as odd as they were beautiful. It was as if we were heading to something amazing, something that never did show up.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then we walked back and went again through the looking glass into booming West Berlin.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Oh, and we had some company for a while when we first set out in East Berlin. Remember that warning about pictures of political materials and transportation?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My not-yet-then-husband had walked maybe a block inside East Berlin before he stopped and took a picture of a billboard featuring Angela Davis, on the wall of an elevated train system.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A couple of colorless men in nondescript suits followed us all the way to the museum. They were gone when we left.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Julie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks Charlie, I'm sharing this because it bears repeating! He is now remembered!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">'Ed Freeman... A True Hero'</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You're an 18 or 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded, and dying in the jungle in the Ia Drang Valley, 11-14-1965. LZ Xray,Vietnam . Your infantry unit is outnumbered 8 - 1, and the enemy fire is so intense, from 100 or 200 yards away, that your own Infantry Commander has ordered the MediVac helicopters to stop coming in.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns, and you know you're not getting out. Your family is 1/2 way around the world, 12,000 miles away, and you'll never see them again. As the world starts to fade in and out, you know this is the day.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then, over the machine gun noise, you faintly hear that sound of a helicopter, and you look up to see an un-armed Huey, but it doesn't seem real, because no Medi-Vac markings are on it.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ed Freeman is coming for you. He's not Medi-Vac, so it's not his job, but he's flying his H uey down into the machine gun fire, after the Medi-Vacs were ordered not to come.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He's coming anyway.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And he drops it in, and sits there in the machine gun fire, as they load 2 or 3 of you on board.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then he flies you up and out through the gunfire, to the Doctors and Nurses.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And, he kept coming back...... 13 more times..... and took about 30 of you and your buddies out, who would never have gotten out.</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Medal of Honor Recipient Ed Freeman died last Wednesday at the age of 80, in Boise, ID ......May God rest his soul.....</span></span></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-38003663295570701662010-01-18T14:10:00.000-08:002010-01-25T05:41:29.462-08:00Susan, Will, Craig Agree - Frightening<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue, I think we agree that the US is trying to do too much in the world.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I agree. </span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The US is not the world police force. Vietnam made me very isolationist. When you get involved in other countries, you often get burned.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm all for pulling out of Korea, Germany and a dozen other places where the work is finished and we've hung around for way too long.</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - I agree. Absolutely no reason for us to have as many forces as we have in Europe.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______</span></span></o:p><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: x-large;">Susan</span><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">OMG...Sue, Will and Craig agree! I may have to do something artistically totally radical. Cutting off an ear has already been done. Let me think on it!.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, we all recognize our agreeing on something for what is - an unnatural act.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And punishment for all agreeing parties is warranted and just.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One hour of Virtual RACK TIME for Sue, Will, & Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The reader can supply her own images. Mine are kind of frightening.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"With Iraq, the problem of dealing with the insurgents is going to be a very long term one, since you don't beat an insurgency militarily, you defeat it by bringing bits and pieces of their base to the bargaining table and getting them involved democratically. When the remaining fanatics are isolated enough - i.e., the moderates rule - then the fanatics can be dealt with criminally. But you need the rule of law, not a thuggery."</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - I agree. But it will not be easy.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The major mistake the US has made in this entire affair is the disbanding of the Iraqi Army. The one thing the Iraqi Army did well was suppress their own people. By doing away with the Army we created a tough military class who went from powerful and rich and in control to poor and out of work and pissed off. I think that you can think of some of the bombings and problems as a Union action - the old Saddam Army views the new recruits as Scabs, and hopes to destabilize the new government and get back into power and get their jobs back.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If we had simply remobilized part of the old Iraqi Army and Police Force there would have been social control from day one. The bad officers could have been weeded out over time. Very stupid on the part of the US.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is done, however, and the new Iraqi government is in charge and we must go forward with the current process. They and we need to get the Iraqi cops and Army up to speed and in control ASAP, with the US getting out soon. The US people have little patience, and lots of Arabs will not be happy until we are out of their turf.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hopefully the grand strategy will work. Democracy will take root and spread in the Middle East and reduce the number of Thug governments and Thug Terrorists. Hopefully.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There is some cause for optimism. Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Iraq have all had elections. Syria pulled out of Lebanon. Kaddafi in Libya is not a good guy (after having killed lots of Americans in terrorist attacks), Saddam is gone, and Syria is now cautious.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But there is unfotunately still much blood to be shed in the middle east and elsewhere, and some of it American.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue, Will and Craig -</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Fighting for Peace is like screwing for virginity. (written on a bathroom wall of The Bayou,Baton Rouge, LO) sending along this witty thought apropos of your discussion...do you still all agree?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is a cute one liner.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our bathroom Philosopher has written a true line.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Peace is usually preferable to war.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And you can always choose peace over war.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We could have chosen not to fight in WW II, and been peacefully taken over by the Nazi's & Tojo. Would not have been pleasant, but we could have avoided the fight and had peace.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ditto the Cold War. We could have rolled over and avoided the long cold war with its occasional hot wars by surrendering. Would not have been nice living under a Communist dictatorship, but would have been peaceful - at least no war and nuclear destruction - although the real Gulags and purges would not have been pleasant. Better Red Than Dead. Bet most of us on this web page would have done some time in the Gulag, and some would likely been shot or learned to parrot the party line. But we would have had peace.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ditto the War (or Non War if you prefer) on Terror. We did not have to fight back. Just "turn the other cheek", which is a very Christian thing to do. Do nothing, just roll with the punches and hope they don't hit you again. Recognize that not very many people get killed, and that you are unlikely to be personally attacked. Stay off the sky line, stay out of the big cities, avoid crowds, and be peaceful and virtous. Or convert to Islam, and start acting right.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So, our Bathroom Philosopher is correct.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are not fighting for peace, which is like screwing for virginity, but rather for our freedom and safety, and the freedom and safety of other nations.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just like Superman, for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way"</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">TERRORISM ALERT IN FRANCE</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The AP and UPI reported that the French government announced yesterday that it had raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide".</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The only two higher levels in France are, "Surrender" and "Collaborate". The raise was precipitated by a recent fire which destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Empire of the United States in a decline.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And Craig, let's not forget those nations who the United States aided and abetted in their efforts to cleanse some of these named and unnamed country s ills. The United States has a closet full of skeletons too Craig...and much the public is yet unaware of. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Let's pray that the next super power will not follow suit by establishing PEACE KEEPING bases in most, if not all countries in the world....that' means right here on our soil.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I suggest to you that The Empire of the United States is also in a decline and from within. Look to the Far East. That's where the next superior superpower is being nurtured.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Every nation that has been the most powerful eventually declines. The Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Spanish, British, French, etc etc had their time at the top for a while, and then for a variety of reasons gave way to younger, more vibrant powers.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our time will surely also come. And China and / or Japan appears to be the most likely country to take our mantle.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It will likely be 20 to 50 years, though, before we are deposed as the world's most powerful country. China has a long way to go, and thankfully Japan has become a very peaceful democracy. And China, despite a horrible history, is evolving into a successful "capitalist roader" regime, with vibrant free enterprise hobbled by a geriatric political system.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But all the America haters that long for the day when America is deposed should think twice. Professor R. J. Rummel of the U of Hawaii on his web page at </span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/</a> </span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">has documented the worst mass murderer nations. *He uses the term "democide*", which he defines as the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder. This definition excludes soldiers killing each other in combat or accidentally killing civilians when in accordance with the Geneva Convention. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Here are the 10 worst nations in the 20th century, with the numbers murdered rounded to the nearest million, up to 1987 (Rwanda, the Congo, Iran, and Iraq were trying hard to make the top 10 during the past 15 years, but we don't have a more recent count, and some of the top 10 (Vietnam, China) are likely slowly adding to their totals.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nation <a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/</a> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">USSR</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">China PRC</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Germany</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">China KMT </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Japan </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">China Mao </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cambodia </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Turkey</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Poland </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Note China made the top 3 different times </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Communist regimes were the top 6 out of 10 times. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Also note that the charming regimes of Cambodia and Vietnam made the list. They are small countries, but they tried very hard.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kudos to the "Ho Ho Ho Chi Min, NLF is sure to win" crowd. They can be proud of their success.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In support of your view, perhaps it would be a good idea if you sent your son, or daughter to the 'hotbed' areas in order to secure your view. Germany, Japan and to a limited extent S. Korea were world wars. How do we justify the other areas we supposedly 'protect'? Lastly, if this country truly had 'The World's' best interest at heart, how come we haven't done 'Our Thing' by coming to the aid of Cambodia, the Sudan, the Congo and so forth?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's one thing to view and nutshell the outside world in terms of friend, or foe, but what I find particularly annoying is the recent and steadily increasing (within the past 5 years) mindset of the 'Them and Us' categorization---liberals vs conservatives. We've always had a two party system. This is nothing new and suffice it to say, neither one is perfect, hence....imperfect people...imperfect world. There is enough blame to go around in both camps. Further, as much as I appreciate the freedoms (increasingly limiting as they are) we are fortunate to experience here in the West, the Democratic system of government is not without its corruption and sometimes narrowminded perspectives.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I am neither conservative, nor liberal. Both terms are limiting in skope. It's bad enought our high school years were pervasive with a 'them' and 'us' mentality.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ken 67</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan,I am not a liberal or a conservative either. This is why it is so easy to see the liberal bias of most media's of the world and clearly see the Rush Limbaugh's of the world. It is very easy to take the stance that we should all be more caring and that killing people is wrong. This is ignoring evil as the poor Jewish people did when Hitler rounded them up and slaughtered them. They didn't fight back. The radical Muslims (not all Muslims) would do the same thing if given a chance. They are evil. I fear people who refuse to see evil, they reject the concept of evil in the fear that they might have to judge someone. Judging someone as evil means you have to face the problem of removing them, dealing with them, yes even killing them. It is easier to deny the existence of the evil than it is to deal with it. Simplistic solutions, such as rejecting all violence, are seductive to undeveloped minds and altruistic religious people. It is disordered reasoning held out as some highly enlightened thinking. While I admire Dr. King, and Ghandi their strategy would have never worked with Hitler or the radical Muslims. Their philosophies do work in an ordered society, evil is not ordered. People fanatically espousing these tenants to others have chosen to close their mind to evil. The regression from true enlightenment to the illusion of nonviolent insight, in a sense is embracing evil, allowing it to rule you. Evil is not tolerant, you cannot reason with it. These people believe that saying someone is evil is prejudiced thinking.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We must teach them not to be evil they will understand. In trying to be kind, unselfish, nonjudgmental one allows evil to become more powerful. One has to fight for good just as evil fights for evil. To do otherwise would be to accept evil, to tolerate it among us. In a sense to accept death over life because evil will kill you if given a chance.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, we are the police of the world and as all police forces fighting crimes against humanity we make mistakes. It is entirely unfair that we are not getting more support from Europe and others in our efforts. One cannot naively assume we have anywhere near the same corruption as most other governments of the world. There are a few others that have as little corruption as the US but not many. Most are wildly more corrupt than our government.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">These are incredibly gray times, it is very difficult, if not impossible to find the true meaning of things. Both the right and the left have taken the easy way out. One does not have to think, worry, fret over the situation if one takes one of these positions.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As far as my children are concerned, we have a voluntary military today. It is their choice whether to enlist or not. I have a deep respect for our sons and daughters serving in our military.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
___________<br />
<br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the producers & decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after the Wild West was tame & created a business of trying to get MORE for nothing.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, Militant Middle-Aged Moderate replies</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">No picking on liberals, Will. It is not fair or balanced.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">5 Pushups.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, you radical militant moderates always frost me.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Personally, I am a moderately schizoid conservative libertarian liberal, myself, strident, yet oh-so centrist, with a mildly nutty aftertaste.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">What conservative biased crapp.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_______</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">John </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">*smile* Yeah, but don't blame Craig, Sue. He's a fair and balanced militant muddle-aged moderate. :-) He's the pushup czar.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The thing Will posted, though, was too moronic to comment on. I think Will deserves FAR more than 5 pushups.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Forget the 5 pushups, how about 5 minutes on the Rack?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Eeeeuuuuuwwwwww! Do you have whips and spurs, too, little girl?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Militant Middle-Aged Moderate replies:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Torture? Sue, that is a little harsh, even for a Conservative male who probably deserves it.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">It is true, however, that the gentle and fair sex have had a reputation as cruel torturers. The famous Kipling poem about the British war in Afghanistan in the 19th century goes something like this:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">When you are wounded and left on Afghanistan’s Plains</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And the women come out to cut up what remains</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Just pick up your rifle and blow out your brains</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And go to your grave like a soldier</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Just think what you could have done to Will back then. Progress ruins everything.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And Will, on sober reflection, you and Sue can have 5 minutes of Rack Time. Conjures up an interesting image, don’t you think? </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig and Will, you two make me laugh....seriously. I'm told, the only torturing I'm capable of is with my cooking. Hey, God gave me many talents....cooking isn't one of them.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">At the next reunion, remind me to give you each a box of my 'killer' oatmeal cookies!</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Remember, whoever wins, is the President.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Accept whoever wins with grace, and limit your rancor.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">No bloviating.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Or else, many 1,000's of pushups.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">All those guilty of rude comments, 50 pushups.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">All right, we are all too old to do 50 pushups. Pushups until you can't do any more. (Not very many in my case).</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Reasonable people can disagree reasonably.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Unreasonable people attack the man, and not his argument.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Email discussions are interesting. In many ways we are more frank and hostile then in an actual conversation.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">For the guys, at lease, we don't usually get so rude in face to face communication since the other guy might clock you. All though we are probably too old for that also.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">So, be nice. Or else more pushups.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Dear Militant Middle-Aged Moderate,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The Republicans say they're "pro-life", yet they seem to derive a certain visceral orgasmic pleasure from war and capital punishment and dog-eat-dog capitalism. I'm so CONFUSED! Should I do the right....errr, left....errr, proper thing and become a "liberal"?</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">How do YOU deal with such apparent hypocrisy, MMM?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sincerely,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Hopelessly confused in the Heartland</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">M3 responds</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Life is difficult. Issues are confusing. There are thoughtful people on both the left and the right. And then there are screaming lunatics on both fringes, as well. And there are goofy moderates, also.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">You could join a monastery, and live a life of quiet contemplation, chanting and praying and humming and bowing and scraping. I am thinking about this course of action. Perhaps we could find one together, pursue and find the answers, and then go into the Guru business, teaching others the way, the truth, and the light.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">This looks like an excellent monastery. They are Hindu, so I think sex is ok. Looks like a bunch of old guys like us. And it is in Hawaii. SUCH A DEAL!!!</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.himalayanacademy.com/ssc/hawaii/">http://www.himalayanacademy.com/ssc/hawaii/</a></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Hi Craig,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I'm interested in learning WHY you think it's our (USA) business to stick Its nose in everywhere in the world? We have our own do'do's to clean up in the USA, without having to go running off to pooper scoop everywhere else on this planet.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We don't see the French or German's landing on our shores, teaching us a lesson or two, on how to fairly treat every nationality "</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig replies:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Well, we have not seen the French on our shores since the French and Indian Wars, in Illinois yet, and the Hessians in the Revolution and German U Boats in WW II.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">But I am not fond of wars. Wars suck, and should be avoided whenever possible. But sometimes you have to fight. Reasonable people can debate about whether we should have fought any wars, or some wars.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Which wars would you have fought, and which ones would you have ducked?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">WW II? Let Hitler and Tojo reach their destiny?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The BIG FRACAS with Communism? Let Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot reach their destiny?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The War with the Terrorists? Let them reach their destiny?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Soldiers, like police officers, have always been primarily tools of the ruling class.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I wish someone could cite me an example of a war, since World War II, where American soldiers were actually or fundamentally fighting for Freedom.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, Tool of the Ruling Class responds</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">John, there you go again. My theory is that you were missing my missives, and knew I would respond. And so to please you I will reply.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. I think most of the wars we fought were for many complex reasons.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">War is bad, and undesirable. To be avoided if possible. Motivations for fighting wars are usually complex, and are fought for a variety of reasons. Most of the wars we fought had many confusing motives, but a major one was safeguarding our homeland - the land of the free. Always has been, always will be. It is a legitimate motive.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We almost always state and many of us believe that our wars are partly for the freedom of the people we were assisting, at least in theory. And I believe in fact.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">WW II - The Nazi's, Italian Fascists, and Japanese were pretty bad guys. Glad they did not win. Pleased that you agree. Our parents fought well. We fought for a lot of reasons, to keep our freedom and safety, and freed a lot of other people.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"THE BIG FRACAS" – The Cold War - Struggle against Communism - Long Struggle of the west against the east. The “mostly free, capitalist west” against the “mostly non free communist east.” A lot of people think that the millions and millions and millions of people that the Communist east enslaved and murdered made them less than desirable. And then of course a lot of other people thought that Communism was a fine thing, that they were just misunderstood, and if we all just sat around singing Kumbaya everything would be alright, and any way as long as number one was not inconvenienced it was ok.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">There were numerous cold and hot conflicts in the BIG FRACAS.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Korea - The Communist North Korea decided to take over South Korea. The United Nations fought that one to keep the south independent of the north. North Korea was and is a gulag, killed numerous people, starved many people, and continues to do so. Terrible place. The South is a pretty nice and pretty free country, in large part because of the brave soldiers who fought there.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We fought that one in part for freedom, and succeeded.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Taiwan - Numerous tussles with Communist China - Cold War. Kept Taiwan free. Taiwan is a prosperous and relatively free democracy. The PRC was a gulag, killing and enslaving many millions.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We fought that one in part for freedom, and part to keep our country safe and free.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Numerous shadowy struggles all over the world, eastern Europe, Central and South America, Indonesia, Cuba, etc. The Communist strategy was to destabilize and then take over the government. The strategy was very successful in many places - Eastern Europe, China, Cuba, southeast Asia. Other countries in South and Central America and Africa flirted with Communism.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We fought these shadowy wars in part for freedom, and part to keep our country safe.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Southeast Asia Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos - "Our War". “The Baby Boomer War” Communist North Vietnam was a very bad country. A gulag. Numerous people voted with their feet to leave. Millions more died in the killing fields. We know more about what happened in Cambodia after we left since the old guys were deposed and their deeds revealed. The same very bad SOB's are in charge of Vietnam, so old lefties can still believe that the Communists were freedom fighters. Laos and Cambodia were poor countries, who went very bad when the Communists took over.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We fought the Vietnam War in part for freedom and safety for the citizens of South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Unfortunately we did not prevail. You ought to visit Southeast Asia some time. See how nice the communist regimes are to their own people. See the Killing Fields memorials. See the locals get checked and frisked every mile or two by the ever present and huge military. Then visit Taiwan or Korea or Malaysia or some other similar but free place. A vast difference.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Iraq 1 & 2. First one was to throw the aggressor Saddam out of Kuwait. Mostly our kids wars. We succeeded, with extensive international support – even the French, making Kuwait free and safe.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Second one was to get Saddam out, and free the Iraqi people. No help from the UN or France or Germany or Russia on this one. They oppose the war for moral concerns, arguing that Saddam was bad, but after all he only invaded other countries and gassed people and murdered people because he was misunderstood. Perhaps the 22 billion oil for food scandal had just a little to do with their moral stance.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The world is a better place without Saddam. He is right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Iraq is a long way from being a good place yet. The jury is still out on that one. I think that most of us hope that it will become a free and good country, although we may disagree on whether that is worth the</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">sacrifice.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I dislike war. It is to be avoided where possible. They are extremely divisive, very expensive, and tough on the kids who fight the wars and their families.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sometimes they are necessary. And sometimes they accomplish good things, like the freedom and safety for western Europe after WW II, free and safe Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia. And sometimes they do not work out - Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, China, Tibet.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Of course, many people think my analysis is wrong. They think the wars were for oil, or so the defense industry could sell weapons, or because we love war, are neocolonialists, fascists, war mongers, thieves. No doubt some limited truth to some of that.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">One point I would make is that the pointed end of the military spear are the 18 to 25 year olds. They do most of the fighting and dying. Most are not very political. They are now our kids. Mostly they have not even voted yet. They join the military for a variety of reasons, including a desire to serve their country, keep the country safe and free, prove themselves, be a hero, get money for college, get a job, learn a trade, etc. They are the best of our kids, willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of their country. They are not the ones to blame if we get into a bad war.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">If we get into a bad war for bad motives, don’t blame them. Blame the voters.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Blame ourselves. Blame the Ruling Class and their tools.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We are after all the ruling class in this country. We have been part of that ruling class since we became voters. And we elect the leaders and tools of the ruling class.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And we have made some mistakes.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Since we are the ruling class, and have made mistakes,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Virtual Reality Pushups for everyone.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Militant Middle Aged Moderate</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I DO in fact appreciate your missives, Craig, though of course I didn't know whether you'd respond. Though I don't entirely agree with your analysis, I'm gonna give you the last word because it's an extremely thoughtful reply. There's plenty in it that I DO agree with. Thank you.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">J.W.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_______________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I'll jump in here now that Craig got the heavy lifting done in scholarly fashion.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">It seems that you, Sue, are inferring we shouldn't be in Iraq, and I disagree with that. The Muslim terrorists stuck their nose in our business to the tune of 3,000 lives in one day. And they have made it clear they we must either become enslaved to their way of thinking or they will kill us all (if they could). THAT's why we are in a war right now, and I don't understand why people can't grasp that.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">George Bush decided that the best way to fight terrorism was to go after governments that sponsor/harbor terrorists. You can disagree with his decision, but that is what is happening. The Taliban in Afghanistan was first, Saddam Hussein was next, and I imagine that any other government foolish enough to think they can pull that kind of crap might get their</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">asses handed to them.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Bullies need to be stood up to or they will keep bullying. The terrorists bully everyone in their country, so they think they can get away with it world wide. George Bush has decided we the best approach is to stand up to them, fight them on their turf so they can't come over here and force you,</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue, to wear a burkha or be stoned to death.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">As an aside, when in the Army, my last job was in the Command Operations Center in Alaska, preparing war plans. I hated it. Absolutely the worst job I ever had. But I did learn many interesting things about the strategy of defending our country. One was that the Atlantic and Pacific oceans were our best defense. They can keep the fighting from coming here, and that is part of W's strategy. Keep the fighting over there. I agree with that, too.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The War with the Terrorists? Let them reach their destiny?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Dear Will...my Bush Admin. supporter friend,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, I am opposed to this war in Iraq, but was not initially. It's helpful to have an Intelligence Agency uncovering THE TRUTH, especially during critical times...such as the one in which we currently find ourselves. You, I and the world is now well aware of the fact that Sadam H. had no concealed WMD's, nor was he a supporter of the Shiite extremists, nor an advocated of Bin Laden's terrorist network. For him to have supported these extremists, would have meant that he would have lost control (and we know he had control issues) of the very elements which supported his meglomania dictatorship. If there were 20 fanatic extremists in Iraq during Sadam's rule Will and Craig, there are 100 times that now. So the premise that Sadam had WMD's and supported Islamic factions, is nothing more than a Grim's fairy fale guys. Sadam was a bad man and will not be missed, but then again, so are the Mullahs ruling Iran, the lobotomied ruler of N. Korea, the Saudi princes ruling S. Arabia, the current ruler of Syria, and possibly adding a new member to that LONG list is Mr. Putin in Russia (another discussion). We sleep in their beds, just as we had slept in Sadam's not so long ago. Establishing that these rulers are corrupted and tyrants, that does NOT give us the right to amass an army at their borders, invade and then occupy...under our terms. Bullying is applicable to them and US! History has shown that this country has stuck its noses into many areas it shouldn't have...and I'm not referring to WWI and WWII.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">With the 50's conflict in Korea, we could have very well armed, trained and supplied S. Korea with the means to defend itself from the aggressor. It was not necessary for us to have troops occupying their soil.....even to this day. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I won't even begin to address the tragic absurdity with our presence in Vietnam. Contrary to some people's thinking, might does not make right. It's one thing to take action in defending one's country, just as we had invading Afghanistan. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Intelligence had proven that Osama was responsible for 9-11 and that he was training and hiding out in Afghanistan. There were NO terrorist training camps in Iraq!!! A more logical approach would have been to look to Saudi Arabia as the safe harbor for all terrorists, what with Osama's influential and wealthy family residing there. But you and I know, that there are specific Texan and other Administration friends who play kissie face with many members of the Saudi family.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I will not support any war where the premise to fight and murder is founded on lies and half truths. We are not bringing these people our brand of freedom, but rather a bastardized generic version. That in and of itself is a criminal act. Shame on our elected officials and shame on us, for not holding our elected officials to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue said "We are not bringing these people our brand of freedom, but rather a bastardized generic version."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Will replies. I think it's better than what they had. They have to learn to walk before they run. And at least the US is setting up new regimes in a democratic fashion rather than installing dictators.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">You still don't address the issue of what you would do to defend yourself in the face of the Muslim extremists goal of trying to rule or kill everyone, everywhere. Or will you turn the other cheek inside your burka?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">John wrote:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"It's hard for me to imagine that you actually believe that propaganda that you posted over on the other forum, though. Soldiers, like police officers, have always been primarily tools of the ruling class. I wish someone could cite me an example of a war, since World War II, where American soldiers were actually or fundamentally fighting for Freedom."</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Judy</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">That wasn't propaganda, JW, that was sentiment. Regardless of how soldiers, police officers, firemen, teachers, reporters or just about anyone else may be manipulated by "the powers" -- I ACTUALLY BELIEVE that most of them, particularly soldiers, ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are doing their job, which is guarding someone's freedom(s). For their good intentions, I thank them and pray for them and their families.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The war itself (which officially ended how many months ago?disgusts me, and I am sick watching the news day after day. I can separate the two emotions, however, and I can feel both of them without having to know how my sentiment figures in the total scheme of history.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">________ </span></o:p><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Three of our Chicago Marine Reserves died in Iraq this week. A tragic loss.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">November 9, 2004</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">DOD Identifies Marine Casualties</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The Department of Defense announced today the death of Marines who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Cpl. Nathaniel T. Hammond, 24, of Tulsa, Okla.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Lance Cpl. Shane K. O’Donnell, 24, of DeForest, Wisc.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Both Marines died Nov. 8 as a result of enemy action in Babil Province, Iraq. They were assigned to the Marine Corps Reserve’s 2nd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, Chicago, Ill.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Lance Cpl. Branden P. Ramey, 22, of Boone, Ill., died Nov. 8 as a result of enemy action in Babil Province, Iraq. He was assigned to the Marine Corps Reserve’s 2nd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, Chicago, Ill.</span><o:p></o:p><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-37679304810121013302010-01-18T13:59:00.000-08:002010-01-19T16:58:57.399-08:0015 Years After the Fall of the Berlin Wall<div class="MsoPlainText"><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MCBH</span></span></o:p><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">November 9 marked 15 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, built in 1961.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Amazing that it is 15 years. Our parents defeated the Nazi and Japanese regimes in WW II. A great victory that most people recognize.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our generation defeated Communism. We never really celebrated the victory, partly because it went out with a wimper. A very good thing. The Communists of the Soviet Union, China, South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos killed far more people then the Nazi / Japanese war machine, and were more dangerous because they had the power to destroy the world in a nuclear war.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We did it partly with military force, including numerous small conflicts plus Korea and Vietnam. We also did it in part with a very large military build up that the Soviets could not match.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But just as important was civilian engagement, where we got to know the Russians and Chinese. They eventually saw that we were not so bad, and they saw that our system greatly outperformed theirs by virtually every measure.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Case in point - A high level delegation from the Soviet Construction Ministry, including the top guy, visited Chicago. My wife was the Director of the South Suburban Mayors and Managers Association. They wanted to see our Federally funded new towns. Beth and I took them to University Park, where we lived at the time. The development of University Park was not successful financially. The town is 90% African American, with very low housing values, but still provides nice housing. The Soviets could see that we provided quality homes and communities for our lower income people - much better than they could provide for their middle class.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We took them shopping at our malls. They liked KMart the best, and bought all kinds of things.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think these contacts eventually convinced the leadership elite that their system was broken, and could not be fixed. They had the courage to change. And they have a long way to go, but the world is a far better and safer place today than 20 years ago. And I am optimistic that over time they will convert to quality democratic countries with good economic performance.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I see parallels between this war in Iraq and that of Vietnam. Both were political in nature and both were fought against perceived evils. Fighting Communism with human lives was just as insane as fighting a dictator's perceived threats. Iraq use to be a dictator state, now it's a terrorist state playground and our presence there has accerbated an already dangerous and volitile situation.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">THERE IS NO WINNING A PEACE IN IRAQ</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It will not happen, at least not for several generations. To do so, would require a dismantling of the ENTIRE Middle East, but not with combat or physical force.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The policing of the World by the United States of America is the forerunner to our decline.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our current war is certainly divisive, and reasonable people can disagree on whether it makes sense or not. A large percentage of the world thinks we are crazy to be doing this. They could be right.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The argument for the war is complicated, but goes something like this.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are now engaged in WW 4, having won WW 2 against the Nazis / Japanese, and WW 3 against communism.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WW 4 is the war against terrorism, primarily Islamic.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: xx-large;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br />
</span></span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What were our choices after 911 and numerous other attacks - our embassies, ships, civilians, etc?</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1. Do Nothing – always the first option for government.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2. Turn the other cheek. Forgive the terrorists. Very Christian. Hope they stop killing us.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3. Use diplomatic means and foreign aid to convince the terrorists to be nice to us.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">4. Hire Hollywood to make movies to improve our image in the Islamic World.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">5. Convert to Islam, confess the error of our ways, eliminate our hedonistic culture, and put women in their place.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">6. Increase police and security in the US.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">7. Hunt them down and kill them.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We chose options 6 and 7. I think that was probably the best choice.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Where did we choose to fight? First in Afghanistan, where the bad guys were in charge. We quickly whipped them, but are still searching for the remaining bad guys in their caves and hideouts. Takes a long time to find bad guys even in the US, and will certainly take a long time in the Middle East.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then we invaded Iraq. Virtually everyone thought Saddam was a bad guy, who raped and murdered and started wars, gassed his own people, tortured many people, and tried to assassinate our President. We also thought he had or wanted weapons of mass destruction and that he might provide them to terrorists to use against us. WMD and terrorist links appear to be less than was thought.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Saddam was the kingpin in a very bad neighborhood of countries that hate us. Iran, Syria, Sudan, and Libya are also quite bad. By taking Saddam down, the other countries learned a bit of fear, which hopefully will help them not to support terrorists or provide them with WMD. Libya was the first shoe to drop - Kadafi had bombed our airplane over Lockerbie. Now he is promising to go straight.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The plan is to try to create a stable, affluent, peaceful democratic Iraq which will be a model for the Middle East. The Middle East would become prosperous, and drop their hatred of the west. Palestine could even become a stable democracy, and develop peace with Israel.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We would achieve something like we did in WW 2, where we helped create the quality properous countries of modern Germany, Japan, and Italy, or in WW 3, where we are helping former communist dictatorships turn into much better countries.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Now, this is certainly not easy. Maybe it is impossible. We may fail.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I am hoping that we prevail. We probably won't know for 10 to 30 years.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And the bulk of the shooting part of the war falls on our kids. Now it is their turn. So far, they are doing this part very well, with the same courage our folks have always shown in previous wars.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just like our war with Communism, it will either end with a quiet wimper (We will gratefully accept that outcome).</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Or it will fail. And we will find that out when terrorists get their hands on serious WMD, and deliver it to our cities. Hoping Chicago is well down that list. I would think New York, Washington, LA, and San Fran are ahead of us.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Keep your fingers crossed, and Prayers flowing.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I can't stand it. You start with a preconceived world view, then present a limited range of options and say, "Here are your choices." Most Americans can't think clearly enough to perceive that the preconceived world view is fundamentally wrong, and that there are in fact other options.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No doubt there are other options. This is an open discussion - propose some other alternatives. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Right. And it has absolutely nothing to do with control of oil.”</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - I am sure oil is a consideration. But we buy oil on the open market, from a variety of countries. We have always done this, and continue to do so.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are not stealing Iraqi oil. It continues to be sold on the open market, at world prices.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are faced with difficult decisions. Option 1 was always a good one, and perhaps the best option. I became pretty much of an isolationist as a result of Vietnam, and I still hate getting in wars.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What does every one else think we should have done? Might be interesting to conduct a little straw poll - vote for one of the 7 options I proposed, or come up with a superior alternative, and we can add that to the mix.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Pat B in Ireland</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WW III</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Perhaps we are IN world war iii. and it may escalate fast now that the warmeisters have been given a new four-year mandate.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">the conflict involved in this 'war on terror,' which seems mostly to be a war on or against muslims, is surely planet-wide. it's not a blitzkrieg, but there' be plenty of time for things to boil up.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">the scariest part seems to be that it's a guerilla (oh my, don't we itch to call them all 'terrorists?') war where it is hard to know who's likely to be activated to do something awful at any given moment.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">send an army into fallujah and clobber the crap out of everyone in sight while the bad guys quietly get in their toyotas and go somewhere else to ply their trade. where's the next invasion in this peace whose war was over a year ago to be?</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">wait until one of the axes of evil are tipped over, iran or north korea. it'll be '1,2,3, what are we fighting for. don't ask me, cause i don't give a damn</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">and the american selective service system will be back in business because it will no longer be possible to hide a de facto draft within the ranks of the military reserves and national guard units.</span></span><o:p></o:p><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-2048518208402217752010-01-18T13:52:00.000-08:002010-01-19T17:02:42.366-08:00Old Reserves Sent to Iraq<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Last night while watching the news on the fighting in Fallujah, I couldn't help but feel a sense of insane futility of this war in Iraq. This is not the American Revolution, the Civil War, WWI, or WWII, whereby we're fighting for the freedom of OUR country, or fighting for the freedom of the ENTIRE world, with the assistance of the ENTIRE world. I am appalled that this government of ours would stoop to such levels in sending American men and women over the age of 45 to Iraq! Has common sense taken a holiday at the highest federal levels in our government? Just how effective would someone over the age of 45 be on a battlefield?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - I volunteered to serve in Iraq, but apparently they agreed with Sue. Several of my Vietnam vet friends served in Iraq. Most of the old guys are not charging up hills, but then most of the guys in any war don't do that. All kinds of people making the airplanes fly, moving men and machines around, providing support.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My God, what's this country come to when our government begins sending reservists aged-61, to serve in Iraq? This reservist was featured on CNN tonight, kissing his wife, children, and grandchildren goodbye. BTW, this guy served admirably in Viet Nam as a helicopter pilot. He's now serving by training new pilots. What does this say about those we elected to the highest offices of our government.... Rebumlican and Democraps alike?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yours truly, Sick and fed up with what's being fed to us, susan budash wrote What next? (Older Reservist called up for active duty)</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"This guy was NOT enthused about being called up, but told the interviewer, "...I don't have a choice.""</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - He made his choice when he signed up for the Reserves. The Reserve and National Guard are designed so that the units or the individuals can be called to active duty when needed.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There are always a number of Reservists that are shocked SHOCKED!! when they are called up. It should be obvious to anyone that you can be called up now. Each individual "re ups" at his own discretion for two, four, or six year contracts. Towards the end of the contract either the individual or the nation can decide to sign a new contract or end the affiliation.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Perfectly ok with me. The Reservist is a member of the Reserve, and as such is subject to call up and service overseas. More and more jobs in the military, just like in the civilian world, need less brawn and youth and more knowlege and experience. No reason an older person cannot do it.</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And as far as getting killed, most people would think better that you get it at an advanced age (say, ours) then 19.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Lastly Craig, Reservists 50 and older have every right to be "SHOCKED"! They're shocked that this country has stooped to such levels as to recruit the aged. Hmmmm, seems to me that Hitler adopted the same form of recruiting when things got desparate at the end. He called up children and the aged, handed them rifles and demanded their loyalty to the Faterland. Heil George</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A little different, don't you think? Hitler forced the old guys and the kids into the fight. But I feel more sorry for the 14 year old that got whacked versus the 70 year old.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It would be ageism not to accept older and decaying and willing volunteer Reserves. We don’t want to discriminate, now do we?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">They won't take me back, for instance, which ticks me off. How dare they not accept this old guy back, especially since I can still leap tall buildings with a single bound (downward only).</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Susan</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well Craig, seeing as this man (and women over the age of 50) who had more than likely signed up for the reserves in his youth, should be given the option of returning the salary paid him over these years if HE decides not to become active. I cannot understand why our government cannot have those over age 50 doing some form of duty stateside.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - He signed a contract. He knew what he was getting into. Keep your sympathies for the poor old draftee from Vietnam or Korea or WW II.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue - You know as well as I Craig, that a person 50 and older has much less physical capabilities than when they were 18 to 40.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - Speak for yourself. I am still running Marine PFT's with a perfect score, and leaping tall buildings with a single bound. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue -It's pure bullshit that our elected leaders have no moral values when it comes to sending poor, disenfranchised and older people to perform their dirty work.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - Tsk Tsk, such language. Well, you don't expect a Republican to send the rich, do you? Lets get real here.</span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue - "I reiterate....where are GWB sweet sachrine daughters in this country's time of need?"</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - agree. Draft em !!!!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue, does it count for anything that the guy obviously volunteered to go? At 61 he could retire anytime he wants to. I'm glad he's on our side.</span></span><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-44538821393266761632010-01-08T17:44:00.001-08:002010-01-26T03:00:45.055-08:00Sad News Chicago Marine Reserve Battalion<div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - Sad news from our Chicago Marine Reserve Battalion from Iraq, as told by their Commanding Officer.</span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is my most unfortunate duty to report to you the deaths four Marines from 2/24, the Chicago Marine Reserve Infantry Battalion:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Corporal Nathaniel T. Hammond, USMC</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Corporal Robert P. Warns II, USMC</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCpl Branden P. Ramey, USMC</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCpl Shane K. O'Donnell, USMC</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">These magnificent Marines, one and all, passed from this earthly existence into the hands of the Lord on Monday, 08 November 2004. Without a doubt, the darkest day in the history of this Battalion since World War II.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cpl Hammond was struck by a command detonated improvised explosive device, while establishing security for the remainder of his Mobile Strike Team during patrolling operations in the vicinity of Yusufiyah, Iraq.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cpl Warns, LCpl Ramey and LCpl O'Donnell were struck by a buried improvised explosive device while conducting a motorized patrol during patrolling operations in the vicinity of Lutafiyah, Iraq.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">ALL Marines were killed instantly, suffered no pain and were recovered by their fellow Marines.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I cannot even begin to express the depth of sorrow and pain I feel for these losses. All of these Marines were exceptional Marines and outstanding human beings, for without whom the world will be a darker place. The most painful and difficult event in the loss of our Marines is knowing it has occurred, and then imagining the reaction of the families who love them dearly upon notification. I take some solace in knowing that as Marines we take care of our own, and the notification will be as professionally done as is humanly possible under the circumstances, but it is truly of little comfort knowing the gut-wrenching pain and soul shattering feeling of hearing the words, "I regret to inform you...killed in action."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But, it is the "killed in action" where the dim light of lossed life can be overcome by the bright shining light of sacrifice and love. These Marines, the living and the perished, live an existence that almost defies description, and I am far to incapable of truly putting it into words. But if you picture the most physically demanding day you ever had in your life,multiply it by (2), and then imagine doing it every single day for TWENTY to TWENTY TWO HOURS a day, you would almost capture what these Marines do.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then, you have to add in the reality of violent death being around every corner, the reality of being ready to destroy and do extreme violence in less time than it takes to blink an eye, do it all while being ever mindful of not harming innocents or non-combatants, accounting for the 50 lbs of armor and gear you are carrying, and trying to not let thoughts of home and loved ones distract you from the duty at hand...and you would have about a 50% visualization of what these UNBELIEVABLE AMERICANS we call Marines do every SINGLE day. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You then ask "why? You ask why because you are not here. I ask why because I am. And, by being here, I ask why because I cannot believe that there are such men! Men that will bear any burden, overcome any challenge, tackle any foe, face any fear, that others might live in freedom and peace. There are no William Shakespeare's in this Battalion and no Albert Einsteins. Quite frankly, many of these Marines you would shutter to present in mixed company, myself included. But you see, at their core of existence, beneath the veneer we all put on for the rest of the world to see, these Marines are pure of heart and soul! They are the Angels that we all long to see in the flesh.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">For all the bluster and machismo, all they want to do is make a difference in a world gone mad! They want to destroy EVIL that GOOD shall abound, and abound aplenty. They want children to be bounced on their father's knee, without the fear of masked men kidnapping and beheading "daddy" in the middle of the night. They want to be part of bringing about an existence where even if they vehemently disagree with another's belief in a God, or in no god, that it is that, a disagreement among men, not an entitlement to torture, maim or slaughter those with whom you disagree. Inside the core of these Marines is love! Love of everything that is decent and proper. Love of their fellow man. Love of their home and country. Love of their family. Love of their Corps and fellow Marines. And, this love keeps them always moving forward.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is this love that will lead us to shed a thousand tears as we memorialize our fallen Angels on Friday. It is this love that will lead us to continue our mission of hunting the terrorists and ERADICATING them from the face of the earth. It is this love that will forever have the families of our fallen angels in our thoughts and prayers. It is this love that will have the names of our fallen brethren forever etched in our minds.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I for one know that I will never again hear the National Anthem or the Marine's Hymn without tears in my eyes, a pain in my soul, and the names and faces of ALL 2/24 fallen HEROES on my mind.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">IT HAS BEEN MY DISTINCT PLEASURE TO KNOW AND SERVE WITH: CPL NATHANIEL T. HAMMOND, CPL ROBERT P. WARNS II, LCPL BRANDEN P. RAMEY, AND LCPL SHANE K. O'DONNELL.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It will forever be my responsibility that I could not bring them home living. But in knowing them in life and in death, I have known Jesus. Because I saw in them the "carrying of the Cross" for love of a friend!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is my deepest prayer that immediately after being welcomed to heaven by the Savior, they were reunited with passed family and friends, and then met by LCpl Daniel Wyatt, issued their orders, and took their post "guarding the streets of heaven."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And, I also pray that the families know our Marines and their precious loved one never dies alone, they die among their friends, their BROTHERS!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">God Bless You, You Magnificent Warriors in your final journey home and may you rest among the Angels where you rightly belong!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In profound sadness,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Mark A. Smith</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LtCol, USMCR</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Commanding Officer, 2nd Bn, 24th Marines</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">PS: SSgt Simon, Co G and LCpl Kruchten Co G, were seriously injured in the detonation that took the lives of Cpl Warns, LCpl Ramey and LCpl O'Donnell. Please pray for them and their families, and please reach out to them in there time of challenge and need.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"I am the Lord, your God,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">who takes hold of your right hand</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">and says to you,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Do not fear; I will help you."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The President and the Liberal Press - May 2003</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie K </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think comparing Viet Nam coverage to Iraq is like apples to oranges. With the amount of embedded journalists assigned, as well free-lance journalists it would take a conspiracy larger than what those consider to be the JFK conspiracy to cover up a war with that much coverage. (Perhaps they consulted Mark Furmon first, but I doubt it).</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Viet Nam was a war run by civilian liberal democrats from the basement of the White House and MacNamara and his "Ivy-League yes men" handled the war as if it was a modern day strategic video game for their own enjoyment. Irregardless of the service men/women who were being killed. Who they, feeling themselves to be educated elitists, didn't care about anyway.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Iraq however had a clear purpose, to dispose of a dictator, who had extensively studied Hitler and Stalin and modeled his regime after a combination of both of them. Killing any opposition. Would Iraq have attacked us? Of course not!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But, Sadam had a deep enough hatred to fund al-Qaida and given the time would have given their suicide squads the W.M.D. to bring into the U.S. to use against us. Not a hard task because we can't close our borders to the masses just to protect ourselves, now can we?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Where are the W.M.D.? The same place as Sadam and his sons. In Iran! The UN with its "dillydicking" around gave him enough time to move all of the weapons along with a fortune of stolen money out of Iraq and into Iran. (which I'm sure will be our next target on the "War On Terrorism" now that they are developing nuclear weapons).</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I find Clinton not only a disgusting example as a President, but also as a lying, cheating disgusting example of a human being. He cut our military spending by one-half and I'm sure if he had more time would have put us at the pre-World War II level we were at when we were fifteenth militarily in the world, behind Venezuela. This was when we believed in isolationism. Kind of like when I hear people now say we shouldn't attack anyone in the Muslim extreme world because they will get mad at us. How much madder can you make these people who want to kill all non-Muslims, or even Muslims who they feel cooperate with the "infidels", and destroy our country and culture? The only thing the violent understand is superior violence!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This is also evident from pre-World War II when Gen. Tojo, believing the American people to be too weak to be willing to fight figured after the attack on Pearl Harbor we would retreat to our mainland and hide. I guess someone forgot to tell the Marines on Iwo Jima about that!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Should we have taken an approach of isolationism as England did with Chamberlain in 1939 when he returned with a piece of paper saying he had Hitler's promise not to wage war? I'm sure Clinton would have sent Albright to get that promise from Sadam. Instead, Bush felt that in the national interest and as a war against terrorism that Sadam would be the first to go. Whether you feel he was right or wrong, he made a decision! Something Clinton could never do, and I'm sure neither would Gore have been able to do it. Now we have North Korea, after all of it's saber rattling about it's nuclear weapon's, who has different thoughts after seeing what we did to Iraq.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Oh, Charlie, I also forgot to mention that the "liberals" in charge of the war when I was in Vietnam were Nixon and his aspiring fascists like Haldeman, Erlichman, and Liddy. Nixon won in 1968 by saying "any administration that couldn't get us out of Vietnam in 4 years doesn't deserve another chance." Four years later Nixon was re-elected although we were still in Vietnam, and he had managed to convince people the war was a non-issue. I was there and we were still suffering casualties every day.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And after the peace agreement was signed, I stayed over there several more months because we were still running secret bombing missions in Laos and Cambodia. Now try to tell me that Clinton was our most dishonest President.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie K</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What is it that the liberals dislike so much about Fox News? Is because it tells the truth about our President and our country and doesn't distort it like the liberal press tries to do? If Peter Jennings or the L.A. Times criticizes the President, the liberals say it's fair and impartial journalism. But, if Fox correctly reports that the Presidents approval rating, as of yesterday, is 64% then the liberals cry this is one sided journalism. Well, looking at the standings of Fox News, compared to other news channels, I go back to what I said before. The liberals are on the run, and are going to be as extinct as the woolly mammoth.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Could some of Clinton's statements about his private life be considered lies, or at least extremely misleading statements? Of course! Could some of Bush's statements about the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq be considered lies, or at least extremely misleading? I think so. Which is more harmful to the American people?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And as a former Navy journalist in Vietnam, I got an up-close and personal look at biased, managed, and outright dishonest reporting. For example, when I de-briefed our pilots after their sorties, I was often reprimanded by my superiors in Saigon for reporting exactly what the pilots told me. I was expected to put a more positive spin on things by listing water buffalos killed as WBLC's [water-borne logistic crafts] or faulty intelligence reports leading them to have to drop bombs in the middle of nowhere as RUDS [results unobservable due to smoke--suggesting targets that had been set on fire]). And based on my own personal experience and objective observations, I would say that FOX News is the closest thing I've seen to that type of "positive spin" reporting. I don't care if it's "Where America Gets It's News," but to me watching Fox News is like watching a Cubs game with Harry Caray announcing at the end of his career--it may be interesting to listen to, but it's not a reflection of what's really going on.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie K</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I've been watching the latest in the liberal presses attempt to discredit Pres. Bush. CNN, MSNBC, BBC, are all reporting a NY Times report that the President made a speech concerning Al Queda in which he said; "That group of terrorists who attacked our country is slowly but surely being decimated," he added. "They're not a problem anymore." Indicating that the President didn't even know the present threats we and any non-Muslim country are under from this group of "criminals".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Fox News showed the speech in question and as usual the liberals are taking the statement out of context. This was a 5/4/03 speech in Little Rock and while talking about our accomplishments against the Al Queda network, the President actually said; " Al Qaeda is on the run. That group of terrorists who attacked our country is slowly but surely being decimated. Right now, about half of all the top Al Qaeda operatives are either jailed or dead. In either case, they're not a problem anymore."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Clearing meaning that the 50% who are dead or in prison offer us no threat. But the liberals are on the run and they know they are</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">becoming as extinct as the woolly mammoth so they have to "lie" in an attempt to discredit a President who has nothing to hide.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Former Clinton Asst. Sidney Blumenthal was on the Fox News; "Where America Gets It's News", last night on the Hannity and Colmes Show discussing his book "The Clinton Wars". Not kowtowing to a former Clinton aide who had written a one sided book, likelets say Peter Jennings would do, Hannity got right on Blumenthal about Clinton's ethics and the fact that he put his hand on a Bible and swore to tell the truth and then went on to lie. And that Clinton lied when he looked the American people right in the eye and said "I did not have sex with that woman!". Blumenthal said these were all Republican lies. Clinton did not sexually assault any women. When Hannity brought up Monica Lewinski, Paula Jones, et al. Blumenthal again said these were all Republican lies. Hannity asked if he thought the women were all liars Blumenthal tried to say the Republicans had sent them to Clinton to discredit him. Now the liberal Democrats not only want to lie about President Bush, but they actually think the American people are stupid enough to believe their lies.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">At least Hannity made a liberal democrat look like his party's symbol. Not the donkey, a "jackass!"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Italians say politicians are like cork-screws: the more twisted they are, the better they do their job!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie, I'm just saying that Fox News in my opinion is very slanted. Since it seems to be slanted toward your point of view I see why you like it, but I don't trust it any more than I trust most things coming out of this Administration, since most of them were key players in the Iran-Contra fiasco, which was the largest illegal government sanctioned lie-fest since Vietnam.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I certainly don't disagree with everything you say, but you do tend to say it with such vehemence that it makes it seem that you aren't even open-minded enough to consider other viewpoints. And just to set the record straight, I have never voted a straight ticket in my life and I do consider politicians to be liars by nature. Could a politician who told the absolute truth be elected? No chance! Plus, I think anyone who wants to be President has to be at least mildly mentally ill to begin with.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks for the clarification and sorry for being a bit too vehement myself. I tend to be skeptical of anyone who seems to have all the answers (although I do respect those like you and John W. who at least can back them up with some documentation). On a personal note, when I retire in a couple of years, my wife and I are very seriously thinking about moving to the Sarasota/Venice area (not just to be near you, Charlie, but my mother lives in Venice and we really love the area). </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Actually, my dad had a regular column in the Venice Gondolier until he died a couple of years ago, and my mom is president of the Friends of the Jacaranda library, which just got a couple of major grants and her picture has been in your local papers quite a bit. Let me know if you hear of any good real estate deals. Maybe we can get together for a meal at the Crow's Nest or bet on the crab races at Sharkey's, or just take our Florida snow shovels to the beach to hunt for some sharks' teeth.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sorry, if I came off so vehemently opposed that it appears I don't have an open mind. I hope I never go that far, but I do have my views, as I sure you can tell. I don't get all of my news sources from Fox News. I get two papers a day, which both carry both liberal and conservative syndicated columnists as well as selected columnists from the NY Times, Washington Post, Chicago Trib etc.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There's not a whole lot of news in the Sarasota area, and I hope it stays that way. Some I agree with and with some I grit my teeth. But, I try to take in both sides. It's just that I find that Fox News goes along with my beliefs, therefore that's what I prefer to watch. But, I will also "channel surf" between CNN and MSNBC. Being retired there is only so much to do in the yard, and only so much time you can spend in the pool or golfing. The rest of the time you can either watch "Soaps", news channels or the History Channel. Even Discovery has bridal shows and new baby care shows on in the day. Don't worry, I know your time to "pull the pin" is coming soon and I'm glad to see that the teachers got that big retirement benefit a couple of years ago.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You're absolutely right about Nixon being President from 1968 until his "sudden departure". It came as a bad flashback to me. I was in Army basic in 1969 and I remember having to clean the company HQ's and there was Nixon's leering face looking at me. Even if it was just a picture, I still checked my wallet. There was a guy so preoccupied with having power he didn't care whose rights he had to violate or who he had to step on. So Clinton was only the second most dishonest President! But, calling Nixon's aides "fascists"?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Columbia Students Rally For Troops</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Columbia Students Rally For Troops</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">AP via Yahoo | April 2, 2003, 2:30 PM EST | DEEPTI HAJELA</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Posted on 04/02/2003 2:35 PM PST by rmlew</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Pro-troops rally at site of historic anti-war demo</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">BY DEEPTI HAJELA, Associated Press Writer</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">NEW YORK - Thirty-five years ago this month, the Low Library at Columbia University was the center of a protest storm as about 1,000 people barricaded themselves inside campus buildings for a week to demonstrate against the Vietnam War.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On Wednesday, amid a growing backlash over a professor's recent anti-war remarks, the library plaza was home to another rally - this one supporting the coalition waging war in Iraq.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Onlookers gathered to watch the speakers at the one-hour rally organized by the campus' Conservative Club, College Republicans and the Students United for America. About 70 student participants stood on the steps of the library, holding flags and listening to the speeches.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"The students of Columbia University stand behind the men and women who defend this great nation," said Megan Romigh, a senior and president of the College Republicans.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"The rally was awesome," said Babylon Town Councilman Lindsay Henry. "It was very refreshing to see such large numbers of people supporting our men and women overseas. They deserve every bit of our respect, love and prayers. I can't wait to see them all come home again safely. There's a solid majority out there that are supporting our troops and it is good to see the silent majority speak out." Henry estimated the crowd fell between 800 and 1,000 people."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Last week, at an anti-war teach-in, Columbia professor Nicholas De Genova told thousands of students and faculty that he would like to see "a million Mogadishus" - referring to the 1993 ambush in Somalia that killed 18 Americans.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">De Genova, also called for the defeat of U.S. forces in Iraq and said Americans who call themselves "patriots" are white supremacists. The 35-year-old anthropology teacher has since maintained a low profile.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The school, while saying the professor was exercising his right to free speech, has distanced itself from his comments.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A significant email and phone-in campaign is underway to him and the President of the University. Several Alumni have joined in and are contacting all alumni and trustees urging them to cut-off donations until De Genova is fired. They are feeling the heat.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So the professor is backpedaling on his own remarks after watching Arnett get fired.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This isn't addressed specifically to me, but I guess I'd like to know what legitimate purpose is served in emphasizing and exacerbating polarization among Americans by quoting the most moronic left-wing college professor, and the equally moronic knee-jerk retorts of right-wing zealots. So much of what passes for "media coverage" consists of asking the wrong questions. Some of the real questions we - ALL of us - need to be asking are these:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1) Can I care about Americans - our troops, the victims of 9/11, etc. – and AT THE SAME TIME care about Iraqis and other citizens of the world?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2) Can I support our troops and at the same time oppose the war in Iraq? Indeed, can I support our troops by opposing the war in Iraq, and other similar wars of questionable motivation and dubious value?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3) Is patriotism manifested in greater measure by mindless, emotionally-driven support of everything our government does, or by reasoned dissent?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">4) Were the anti-Vietnam-war protestors at Columbia U. WRONG in 1968? And "silent majority" - where have I heard THAT term before? Are we REALLY unable to comprehend that the American "military industrial complex" (to coin a phrase) employs PROPAGANDA, and in fact some of the most sophisticated propaganda the world has ever seen?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">5) Does the rationale given us by our government for going to war against Iraq REALLY BEAR SCRUTINY? Does history REALLY teach us that government leaders generally act with integrity and altruism, in the best interests of their most lowly citizens?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">6) Can we REALLY afford to continue imposing American values and pursuing American interests in such a ham-handed way, while incurring the anger and indeed terror of most of the rest of the world?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">7) Are we REALLY so arrogant as to think that God loves us more than He loves everyone else in the world, and that our "World's Only Superpower" status is some divinely-ordained and perpetual state of existence?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">6) Do we REALLY HONEST TO GOD believe that the emperor - OUR emperor – is wearing clothes?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The fact is, John, that this " moronic left-wing" professor, as you define him, is not an isolated figure nor is Columbia U. alone in allowing those like him who abuse/use their professional position as "educators of youth" in what should be academic centers of learning - and just maybe – some people need to be made aware of this!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well, I suppose neither of us has statistics to back us up. I would bet my very life, though, that the number of anti-war protestors who desire "a million Mogadishus", or who would give voice to such a sentiment, constitute such a minuscule minority that the professor at Columbia is virtually an isolated figure. And I would give students enough credit – as they in fact demonstrated they are deserving of, according to the article, though only 70 took part in the counter-protest - to be confident that they can discern the crackpots from the genuinely thoughtful dissenters. It's all about freedom of speech, and the lunatic fringe at both ends of the spectrum must be allowed the same liberties as others in order for the First Amendment to have meaning. The trouble with drawing attention to their utterances, however, is that it generates more heat than light, and distracts people, as I said earlier, from thinking about the things they should be thinking about. Apparently you were distracted, Marie, because you failed to address any of my eight questions.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I didn't answer any of your queries, John Dubya, because I considered them irrelevant to what I was focusing on as the central point - and I disagree with you about the influence this man (whom you call moronic and whom I would define as dangerous) has on 18 ,19, or 21 year-old students who are intellectually, emotionally and spiritually vulnerable young adults, facing personal choices and decisions about life. Professors represent fonts of wisdom, figureheads of maturity and their life-style and attitudes may be esteemed and emulated by their students who are just beginning to form their own attitudes and politic ideas.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">(You admitted how you strove to find your personal position with regard to the the Viet Nam conflict and the draft - Didn't you seek out the advice, counsel, and opinion of others you regarded as authoritative? Don't tell me you weren't influenced by the general undercurrent and attitudes at Dartmouth!)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My alma mater, DePauw University - which calls itself a church-related school - is faced with a lawsuit by a professor who sustains that she was dismissed for her biblical beliefs! So much for church-related! (in consequence, some alumni and townspeople who have supported the university are now withdrawing their financial gifts in protest.)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This incident at Columbia is not isolated, John. It is a sign of the times - and I fear for our youth...Some blow their brains out, some may blow some else's brains out! We can never underestimate the effect our words may have on someone listening!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, I was most definitely influenced by the "general undercurrent and attitudes" at Dartmouth, and indeed throughout America in the '60's. But the undercurrent and attitudes were not homogeneous, and I was free to pick and choose from among the cacaphony of conflicting voices. It was a terribly confusing time and a lot of us got tragically lost as a consequence, but I don't blame the confusion of those days on one professor or on one university, and I know that the confusion of that era was historically inevitable, as a consequence of a great many decisions made, mostly without our knowledge or consent, by our federal government among others.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And yes, I sought out the advice and counsel of people I regarded as authoritative. But even at age 17, I understood the difference between wisdom and mere knowledge, and I knew that precious few of my college professors possessed very much in the way of wisdom. I still remember dropping my Philosophy 101 class after attending the first lecture, and asking the professor in his office after the class, "How can you justify your existence as a professor of Philosophy?" Youthful hubris, yes....but I recognized that wisdom was not to be found in that classroom. When I became a Christian in 1970, I was privileged to meet one of the wisest men I have ever known, who had a third-grade formal education but was steeped in the Word of God.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Columbia U. cannot have been ignorant of this man's political redence - - and their blasè, cover-their-ass attitude is representative of many other academic institutions from Columbia to Berkeley and in between....who not only tolerate, but seek out, maintain, and encourage these kitsch and elite among their tenured staff - I'm afraid that to maintain that elusive quality called "academic freedom", and the First Amendment rights guaranteed by the Constitution, we must tolerate the voices on the fringes, and hope that we are educating our children well enough, intellectually and morally, so that they can intelligently reject those fringe voices. How would you go about setting up a process of censorship, and whom would you put in charge of it?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Very true....but neither can we keep eternally silent for fear that someone might be adversely affected by our words. All we can do is to try to choose our words carefully and wisely....which it appears that the Columbia prof didn't do in the instance you cited, but which I submit that Resident Bush NEVER does, even with speechwriters putting words in his mouth. I fear for our youth, too....but how, practically speaking, would you go about changing "the times"?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I really don't understand what precisely any of this has to do with one professor at Columbia. There are many signs of the times, many voices. Again, whom would you put in charge of the Department of Homeland Censorship, and how would you set it up in a principled fashion?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John Dubya</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I enjoy a lively political debate, and find the dialogue between the left and right interesting. In the end, though, the intelligent (and usually quiet) 20% in the middle make the choice in the election. The democrats and republicans enjoy about a lock on 40 to 45 % of the electorate. The center is what counts.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And the by the way, don't get too excited about the "Sky is falling, the sky is falling" rhetoric. Our country and the world are doing pretty well. Compare now to the height of the cold war, Vietnam, WW II, the depression, etc.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When we get too excited about the relative evils of the right or the left, reflect on the words of my friend and partner, Professor Efraim Gil, who survived WW II, the Russian Communists, and the Nazi's. He points out that in America, a rather decent republican or democrat is elected at the end of each election. We are not talking about the choice between a Nazi and a Communist. Although listening to some condemn Bush or Clinton you would think they were.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">All in all, things are pretty good. Your world assessment can be that the glass is either half full or half empty. I think it is half full.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You make a good point about elections, Craig, and about the country in general. I have no desire to move to a different country. But I do think we could do a better job of distributing the nation's wealth. And I definitely wouldn't want to lose my son in a war that has nothing to do with protecting America (like Iraq, and as you well remember, Vietnam).</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"And what happened in Viet Nam? Virtually everyone who went over there, and many who stayed stateside, learned very quickly to call the Vietnamese "gooks" and to think of them as sub-human."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Not everyone, John. We were trying to win the hearts and minds of the people. And we were</span><br />
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<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Fine Water Buffalo, Motor bike, and tuk tuk</span><br />
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</div></span><span style="font-size: x-large;">instructed that way, and the better people believed it and worked at.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I will compare it to the south side. Some people were and are absolute racists. But not everyone, certainly. And the better people were not and are not racist. To call everyone who went to Vietnam racist is like saying all people in south Chicago are racist. It simply isn't accurate.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Let me rephrase your statement to illustrate the inaccuracy:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"And what happened in south Chicago? Virtually everyone who went there, and many who stayed there, learned very quickly to call African Americans the "XXXX" and to think of them as sub-human."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">Quite a few servicemen married Vietnamese women, and raised families. I went back to Vietnam in 1999. Still beautiful, people still friendly, love Americans.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"And there were plenty of atrocities, despite the fact that Craig denies seeing any (and perhaps he personally didn't). There was more than one My Lai."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yes there were. Just as there has been more than one horrible murder in south Chicago. But don't brand everyone in the south side as a murderer. And don't brand all of the servicemen and women, most of whom are doing a good job in an ethical manner, as war criminals.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well, one could easily make the argument that anyone who fights in a criminal war is a de facto war criminal. But even though we have all sorts of criminal laws on the books in the civilian context about "conspiracy" and "felony murder", I won't make that argument. And I don't believe that I suggested anywhere that all soldiers, either in Viet Nam or in Iraq, were or are war criminals. I was merely responding to Jim's statement that this generation of soldiers, the ones who are now in Iraq, are somehow worse, on the whole, than those who fought in Viet Nam. I'm not convinced of it. I think human beings are inherently cruel and sheeplike, as the two famous psychology experiments amply demonstrate, and I think that war - any war - does strange things to people to exacerbate those tendencies and remove the barriers to barbarity.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Certainly the use of napalm in Viet Nam was an atrocity.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">War is a brutal business, to be avoided whenever possible. But warfare also has rules, developed and agreed to by most countries. We have outlawed poison gas, for example, and most countries abide by this agreement (Except Saddam, or course).</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But other weapons as brutal are accepted. Shooting someone or being shot, or bombed, or shelled, or killed by a mine is not pleasant, but is part of warfare.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That is the way it is.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And napalm and flamethrowers, while bad, are accepted.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Where might I read these "rules of war"? I'd really like to see where it says, "It's perfectly acceptable to drop burning chemicals and nuclear bombs indiscriminately on your fellow man if your nation has a beef with their nation." I want to see those words in print. I'd be most grateful if you could direct me to them, Craig.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thanks</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The rules of war regarding the ethical treatment of prisoners are developed under the Geneva Convention, some UN rules, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. There is a lot on the web on these topics. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A good summary of the rules of war below:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The essential rules of international humanitarian law:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect for their life and for their physical and mental integrity. Such persons must in all circumstances be protected and treated with humanity, without any unfavorable distinction whatever.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is forbidden to kill or wound an adversary who surrenders or who can no longer take part in the fighting.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The wounded and sick must be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Medical personnel and medical establishments, transports and equipment must be spared. The red cross or red crescent on a white background is the sign protecting such persons and objects and must be respected.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited rights to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.redcross.lv/en/conventions.htm"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.redcross.lv/en/conventions.htm</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thank you, Craig, for posting these rules..</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When you take the time to really read these, does it not seem to you that we've violated just about every one of 'em, with regularity and impunity?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I admit that guerrilla warfare makes things a bit hairy. What if, for example, enemy combatants are using a Red Cross ambulance as cover? But I think that our military and political leaders, on the whole, use things like this as excuses - lies, to be blunt about it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Excellent example: On April 8, 2003, U.S. aircraft destroyed the building housing the Arab news service Al Jazeera's Baghdad bureau; then U.S. artillery bombarded the building that housed Abu Dhabi television; and finally a U.S. tank fired at the Palestine Hotel, where a hundred "unembedded" reporters were staying, including some Americans. In these incidents, which all took place on the same morning, several unarmed journalists were killed and many were injured. The claim by U.S. Central Command? The tank that fired at the Palestine Hotel was responding to "significant enemy fire from the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I don't believe it for one second. For one reason, the journalists who were there never heard any gunfire. If there was gunfire from the street, they asked the legitimate question of why the tank targeted the 15th floor of the Palestine Hotel, which is where Al- Jazeera had some reporters. Finally, while we never hear these things in the U.S., the unit's tank commander, in an interview with the French Magazine "Le Nouvel Observateur", made no mention of hostile fire from Iraqis in the area of the hotel.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I could go on, but you get the idea. "Rules of War" are nice if they're respected and followed, but I think that's the exception rather than the rule.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Let me ask you this, based on your experience, Craig: Was there any truth to that movie starring Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson, where Nicholson says "You can't handle the truth!" (I can't recall at the moment the name of the film.) What about Pat Conroy's novels about the Citadel, based on his own experience of attending that august military institution? Truth or fiction?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Don’t use movies as a way to understand reality. Movies always emphasize action, and frequently exaggerate a situation to make it more dramatic. Most of the films about Vietnam are ridiculous, with no link to reality. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">About the hits on the media in Iraq, I am quite sure it was confusion in the fog of war. The military is not wild about the media, but they don’t go around murdering them, either. A good rule of thumb is not to get into fights with people who own buckets of ink. I have been very close to getting killed by artillery, tank fire, and bombs in both the war and in training exercises in the US </span><b><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">from our own guys</span></i></b><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Nobody was intentionally shooting at my men and I. But things are very confusing when there are loud explosions, dust, noise, fear, exhaustion and confusion. Lots of things and people get shot or bombed unintentionally.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Now think about some kind of plot by the military to kill these journalists. Some rogue General or Colonel is going to issue orders to shoot and bomb journalists intentionally? He issues the orders by radio to the plane and tank crew and the artillery folks on the fly? Dozens of people hear him make those orders? Someone would turn him in. I am quite sure it was a tragic mistake.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John - Nothing our country does is good or good enough for you. No matter what the subject you see the worst in it. If the glass is one drop shy of being full, you see it as half empty.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">To equate the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib as as bad as what the Nazis use to do is disingenuous. Most folks make up their minds emotionally and they use logic to justify their positions. You raise this human trait to an art form, John. Your logic is faultless, but you always miss the point.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ultimately in any guerilla war, in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan, you have to have the support of the people. You have to win their hearts and minds. And you have to be fair to the people, help them, and not kill them if you hope to succeed.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That may be what you THOUGHT you were doing, or what you were TOLD you were doing. But can you not admit, Craig, after all these years, that the best way of winning the hearts and minds of a people is generally NOT by killing them, burning down their villages, invading their land? Is it still so hard to admit, 35 years later?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nope. We were helping the South Vietnamese fight a Communist take over from North Vietnam, financed by the Chinese and Soviet Communists. Like Communists everywhere, they were thugs and murderers. Unfortunately the bad guys won, and Vietnam is a Police State. The world knows what happened in Cambodia, and similar things happened in Laos and Vietnam. They did this crap all the time, as a matter of policy and procedure. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S0-btfafFzI/AAAAAAAABhE/umU76pC4w2w/s1600-h/Kid+on+the+road.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="320" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S0-btfafFzI/AAAAAAAABhE/umU76pC4w2w/s320/Kid+on+the+road.jpg" width="282" /></span></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig wrote: “I went back to Vietnam in 1999. Still beautiful, people still friendly, love Americans.”</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">To the extent that this is actually true, it's a tribute to the human spirit, the human ability to rebuild and to forgive. I admit that these stories involving returning veterans, which we see and hear about every once in a while, are very touching. None of it, however, in any way justifies the Viet Nam War.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim, remember at the beginning of the war when Sadam showed the first American prisoners captured - and America was outrageously offended because the Geneva Convention regarding treatment of prisoners had been violated.....?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well, what happened in Abu Ghraib also blatantly trampled these same rules we demanded Sadam to respect.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our government has admitted there was a gross injustice committed and I believe they are taking the proper steps to address this improper and scandalous behavior.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of the Christ" almost prophetically portrayed this madness - and showed how soldiers thrilled to sadistic torture – WHICH WAS NOT ordered from their superior officer! It happened then, it happens still - it needs to be stopped.... and I think the perpetrators need to be helped ....and forgiven! I feel very sorry for their families and the shame they must bear -</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam was of course a tragedy, and Iraq may prove to be a mistake. And since I lost a large number of friends to the Vietnam War, including Koreans and Vietnamese, it makes me very sad.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The American left was very instrumental in the effort to withdraw American support from Indochina. We all remember well the chant of the anti war movement</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NLF is sure to win!!"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But the left should not be too proud.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1JFXM47e0I/AAAAAAAABiQ/VqkGgyfnmkc/s1600-h/Killing+fields+2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="212" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1JFXM47e0I/AAAAAAAABiQ/VqkGgyfnmkc/s320/Killing+fields+2.jpg" width="320" /></span></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">The four dominoes, South Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma all fell to the Communists when we withdrew our support. The blood bath followed.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1JFcirMydI/AAAAAAAABiY/Y9HrmF67s1s/s1600-h/killing_fields_skulls.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="240" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1JFcirMydI/AAAAAAAABiY/Y9HrmF67s1s/s320/killing_fields_skulls.jpg" width="320" /></span></a><br />
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</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yale University </span><a href="http://www.yale.edu/cgp/"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.yale.edu/cgp/ </span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">estimates "The Cambodian genocide of 1975-1979, in which approximately 1.7 million people lost their lives (21% of the country's population), was one of the worst human tragedies of the last century."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-large;">Professor Rummel of the University of Hawaii had compiled enormous data about deaths in wars from combat, and murder by governments. The Communist governments are far and away the worst. More then you ever wanted to know about State murder (democide) on this link.</span><br />
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</span><br />
<a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM</span></a><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We know about masses of people fleeing South Vietnam, the boat people. This was actually ethnic cleansing, as many of them were ethnic Chinese. The scale of the genocide in Vietnam following the war is not known, since Vietnam is still ruled by the same people who won after the war. And they are not about to let anyone investigate their war crimes.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S08d5jYpg0I/AAAAAAAABgU/JwOl9o9UYW0/s1600-h/Convoy.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="243" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S08d5jYpg0I/AAAAAAAABgU/JwOl9o9UYW0/s320/Convoy.jpg" width="320" /></span></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My wife and I visited Vietnam again in 1999. Interesting trip. The country was a police state – the people had to submit to a credential check at checkpoints every mile or two. The country was very poor – almost no motorized vehicles in Danang – people riding bikes. We saw one little girl selling individual sticks of gum. People were afraid to talk about the “American” War. Everyone was paranoid about being overheard.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The country is still beautiful, and everyone we met were extremely nice, and told us they love America and love Americans.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But one interesting thing that I found in 1999 was that there were virtually no men our age in Danang. I hoped to meet a few of the Vietnamese I served with, and perhaps connect with some Vietcong or NVA. But I only found one individual, a Catholic Priest, who was our age. He was in the "reeducation camp" for 17 years after the war. And he could not of course talk about his experiences.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My conclusion - The men our age either:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> 1. Escaped with the boat people</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> 2. Were killed outright</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> 3. Worked / tortured to death in the camps</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> 4. Or are still in the camps</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Probably all of the above. And I think there is a good chance that the genocide in Vietnam exceeded that of Cambodia.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The anti war movement will of course never acknowledge their role in any of this.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I doubt it has ever occurred to them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No, for the simple reason that we felt, and still feel, that the U.S. had no business being in Viet Nam in the first place, and that our involvement, like that of the French before us, contributed to the chaos and the genocide. We supported a corrupt South Vietnamese regime that hardly anyone in Viet Nam, including the South Vietnamese army, supported. The people who were killed, forced to escape, or sent to "reeducation camps" after we departed were primarily those who had supported, or were perceived to have supported, the corrupt South Vietnamese regime and the American occupation of Viet Nam. Had we never gotten involved in Viet Nam, the entire country would have been united sooner under some form of communist government led by Ho Chi Minh. You can argue that that wouldn't have been a desirable thing, but at least there probably wouldn't have been the bloodbath. At the VERY least, we wouldn't have shared responsibility for it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The problem with the "domino theory" was, and still is, that (1) it presumes that communism is some sort of monolithic system of government, which is as ridiculous as saying that all "democracies" are identical, and (2) it presumes that no one in the countries involved WANTS communism. The reality is that the peasants in a given country may be living miserable lives under the prevailing system of government - usually some sort of monarchy or military dictatorship - and may feel that ANY system of government is preferable to the one that they are suffering under. They may WANT communism, which promises them greater equality. Sure, communism may not deliver on its promises, and it may take the peasants quite a few years to find out that communism isn't so hot either. But it was what they thought they wanted at the time.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Even assuming that the United States imposed "democracy" on other countries - which it most emphatically does NOT most of the time - the U.S., as a practical matter, simply can't go all around the world saying "Here, take our version of democracy and free-market capitalism whether you want to or not, because it's GOOD FOR YOU." The citizens of a given country or region have to "work out their own salvation with fear and trembling", for better or for worse.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We need to remember that Communism was an incredibly evil system. They killed far more people then anyone else. They made the Nazi’s and Japanese look like pikers. They enslaved over a billion and people.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This web page seems well balanced, with a wealth of info on the Bloodiest Tyrant.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/20centry.htm"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/20centry.htm</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The writer arives at his conclusions by averaging most of the writers on the subject. There are several alternatives where Mao or Stalin win the race. Note that Saddam, Pol Pot, and Ho Chi Minh made the second team of mass murderers. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But it was not for the lack of trying.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The following is excerpted from the above web page.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">... and these are just the problems we'll encounter if we accept my numbers without debate. If we want to use the estimates of other scholars, we can pin up to 50 million murders on Stalin, enough to push him to the top of the list regardless of definition. Or we can whittle him down to 10 million murders if we use the low end of the margin of error, and scrounge several more tens of millions for Mao, or away from him.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So, the answer to the question of "Who is roasting on the hottest fires in Hell?" is "Well, that depends..."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">----------------------------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">“Secondary Level of Mass Murderers:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Obviously, we're going to run into the same vagueries and uncertainties when we try to rank numbers 4 through 10 on the list of the 20th Century's worst killers, but at least we can nominate the candidates. A pretty good case could be made that each of the following rulers (listed alphabetically) were responsible for over a million unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths by initiating or intensifying war, famine, democide or resettlement, or by allowing people under their control to do so:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">a.. Chiang Kai-shek (China: 1928-49)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">b.. Enver Pasha (Turkey: 1913-18)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">c.. Hirohito (Japan: 1926-89)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">d.. Hirota Koki (Japan: 1936-37)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">e.. Ho Chi Minh (North Vietnam: 1945-69)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">f.. Kim Il Sung (North Korea: 1948-94)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">g.. Lenin (USSR: 1917-24)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">h.. Leopold II (Belgium: 1865-1909)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">i.. Nicholas II (Russia: 1894-1917)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">j.. Pol Pot (Cambodia: 1975-79)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">k.. Saddam Hussein (Iraq: 1969- )</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">l.. Tojo Hideki (Japan: 1941-44)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">m.. Wilhelm II (Germany: 1888-1918)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">n.. Yahya Khan (Pakistan: 1969-71)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">North Vietnam is estimated to have murdered about 2 million people. And of course the world knows about what happened in Cambodia.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Judy</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig --</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I appreciate your thoughtful response and your gentle approach. I got a more vociferous response from my son who served in the Marine Corps for only four years but still models his behavior after the code of conduct he learned 12 years ago at Parris Island. I'm lucky that a certain fruity-cocktail swilling Floridian with a decorated Marine son isn't around to lambaste me.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As I said earlier, what bothers me the most is that we'll never REALLY know all the facts of this situation. Neither will the 9/11 Commission "reveal" anything substantive, unless I miss my guess.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think it was Marie who asked, "where is the outrage over the beheading of Michael Berg?" Well, that situation is so appalling, I can barely speak of it. Again, however, I'm certain we will never know (though it will be investigated, discussed and rumored to the max...), what was Michael Berg really doing in Iraq? Was he a young, adventurous professional with a charitable inclination? Or, was he a CIA recruit in Iraq because of his knowledge of international telecommunications? We'll never know -- and, God bless them, neither will his family ever have any answers.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Judy,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was Charles not I who asked the question "where is the outrage over the beheading of Michael Berg?"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I never answered him because it was exactly as he cried "an outrage" – and I am as disgusted with this act of inhumanity as I am with those acts of depravity in Abu Ghraib....and with news casts which daily play and replay the same horrific photos.... but I also would like to add - that after the flagrant splaying of those photos all around the world - I was not surprised by what happened to Michael Berg - it was only a matter of time before another vindictive atrocity was committed!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We have opened Pandora's box - and only God knows what further horrors await us all....</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Regarding Michael Berg - I am also outraged for another reason! When will the US "wake up" - as Mary Caroline's posting exhorts us – and stop sending people of Jewish heritage/ surnames (for whatever reasons) into these Muslim countries - ???</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">first Daniel Pearl, now Michael Berg! It's like these two men were set up for a kill - Do our authorities not know that these Arabs HATE Jews? - or do they think because someone comes from America they can sneak in and hide their Jewish background....?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Let's really wake up - and protect our people - and stop sending them indiscriminately to the slaughter.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Thank you, Craig for the web-sites - they are very interesting..... I have just finished reading a book in Italian entitled "I Nuovi Perseguitati" (The Newly Persecuted)....which also gives statistics and claims 13,000 people are killed EVERY DAY - for their faith - The worst places being Sudan and China right now - However, there are still many people in Bulgaria, Romania, and Russia who are still imprisoned and tortured for no other reason than because they are christians! But this book also says more people were killed by Stalin than any other dictator in history....</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John, are you a complete pacifist? Did you oppose our part in WWII, for example?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I should probably try to answer this, even though you don't respond directly to some of my more difficult questions.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm essentially a pacifist. Violence is never a long-term solution to human problems. Though I know that some of you reading this think that I am hardly the embodiment of love, I believe and try to practice the principle that love is the only thing that really matters, the only thing that has any hope whatsoever of uniting people and enabling them to live amicably together on this earth. When I speak of love I'm not talking about some emotion that you feel, but something you will yourself to do.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The people I have the most difficulty loving are the rich - those who hoard most of the world's resources, and feel some incomprehensible (to me) sense of entitlement - and the hypocrites - those who profess one thing while practicing something different.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As for World War II, that's a tough one. I wasn't alive then, so fortunately I didn't have to make a decision. It was the last clear- cut case in history where we were deliberately attacked by another sovereign nation, so we clearly had to make some sort of response to Japan. Hitler's motives were fairly obvious, too, though there is much evidence to suggest that our government officials knew about the German concentration camps for quite some time, and chose to do nothing about them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I don't, though, think that we had to drop atomic bombs on civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think it was unconscionable. I think we could have found an uninhabited island off the coast of Japan, and said to Hirohito, "Watch and learn. Here's what's going to happen to your cities if you don't surrender." Then we could have bombed that uninhabited island into oblivion. I'd like to think that Hirohito would have gotten the message.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As for my personal participation in violence, all I can say is that I reserve the right to choose my own enemies, based on criteria that I can personally verify, and my own response to those enemies. No "authority figure" with a hidden agenda is ever going to tell me who my enemies are. I decided back in 1968 - having lived with a French family and having had a Japanese roommate who were all truly wonderful people with needs and desires just the same as mine – that was a fool's game. Fortunately I haven't had my resolve put to the ultimate test, since the Viet Nam draft had slowed down by the time I graduated from college in 1971, and now I'm of course too old to serve in the military. I'm genuinely grateful about that, because there's just too damn much propaganda out there to really understand why America does the things militarily that it does. I'm afraid I don't buy most of the "official" explanations.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dropping the atomic bombs on civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a very brutal deal. But so was World War II. My Great Uncle Walter Anderson was killed fighting the Japanese, and my father, two uncles, and father in law were lining up for the invasion of Japan. I am sure a number of our collective relatives were in line for this brutal invasion. And you can believe that most of the GI’s were glad when the war ended when it did.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was projected to be a blood bath, both for our soldiers and theirs and their civilians. Japan intended to fight fanatically for every inch of ground, much as they did no numerous islands.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There are numerous estimates of far more</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The US Military teaches core values to personnel. Of course all people do not achieve all the of items below, but they are taught, and followed by most people.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">U.S. Marine Corps' Core Values</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Generation after generation of American men and women have given special meaning to the title United States Marine. These same men and women live by a set of enduring Core Values which forms the bedrock of their character. The Core Values give Marines strength and regulate their behavior; they bond the Marine Corps into a total force that can meet any challenge.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Honor guides Marines to exemplify the ultimate in ethical and moral behavior; to never lie cheat or steal; to abide by an uncompromising code of integrity; respect human dignity; and respect others. The quality of maturity, dedication, trust and dependability commit Marines to act responsibly; to be accountable for their actions; to fulfill their obligations; and to hold others accountable for their actions.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Courage is the mental, moral and physical strength ingrained in Marines. It carries them through the challenges of combat and helps them overcome fear. It is the inner strength that enables a Marine to do what is right; to adhere to a higher standard of personal conduct; and to make tough decisions under stress and pressure.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Commitment is the spirit of determination and dedication found in Marines. It leads to the highest order of discipline for individuals and units. It is the ingredient that enables 24-hour a day dedication to Corps and country. It inspires the unrelenting determination to achieve a standard of excellence in every endeavor.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"><div style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0.4em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The </span><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">Code of the U.S. Fighting Force</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> is a </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #5a3696; text-decoration: none;" title="Code of conduct"><span style="font-size: x-large;">code of conduct</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> that is an "</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Ethics"><span style="font-size: x-large;">ethical</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> guide" and a </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="United States Department of Defense"><span style="font-size: x-large;">United States Department of Defense</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> directive consisting of six articles to members of the </span><a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Military of the United States"><span style="font-size: x-large;">U.S. armed forces</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">addressing how U.S. personnel in combat should act when they must "evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy." It is considered an important part of U.S. </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_doctrine" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Military doctrine"><span style="font-size: x-large;">military doctrine</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> but is not formal </span><a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_law" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Military law"><span style="font-size: x-large;">military law</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> in the manner of the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Uniform Code of Military Justice"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Uniform Code of Military Justice</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_international_law" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Public international law"><span style="font-size: x-large;">public international law</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> (such as the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Geneva Conventions"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Geneva Conventions</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">).</span><br />
</div></div><div style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0.4em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div></div><div style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0.4em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Code of Conduct was established with the issuance of </span><a class="extiw" href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_10631" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #3366bb; text-decoration: none;" title="s:Executive Order 10631"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Executive Order 10631</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> by </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="President of the United States"><span style="font-size: x-large;">President</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Dwight D. Eisenhower"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dwight D. Eisenhower</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> on 17 August 1955, after the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Korean War"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Korean War</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">. It has been modified twice—once in 1977 by President </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Jimmy Carter"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jimmy Carter</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> in </span><a class="extiw" href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12017" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #3366bb; text-decoration: none;" title="s:Executive Order 12017"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Executive Order 12017</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, and most recently in President </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Ronald Reagan"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ronald Reagan's</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span><a class="extiw" href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12633" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #3366bb; text-decoration: none;" title="s:Executive Order 12633"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Executive Order 12633</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> of March 1988, which amended the code to make it </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Gender-neutral pronoun"><span style="font-size: x-large;">gender-neutral</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">.</span><br />
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</div></div><div style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0.4em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Notably, the code prohibits </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_(military)" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Surrender (military)"><span style="font-size: x-large;">surrender</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> except when "all reasonable means of resistance [are] exhausted and...certain death the only alternative," enjoins captured Americans to "resist by all means available" and "make every effort to escape and aid others," and bars the acceptance of </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Parole"><span style="font-size: x-large;">parole</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> or special favors from enemies. The code also outlines proper conduct for American </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Prisoner of war"><span style="font-size: x-large;">prisoners of war</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, reaffirms that under the Geneva Conventions prisoners of war should give only "name, </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_rank" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Military rank"><span style="font-size: x-large;">rank</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_number" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Service number"><span style="font-size: x-large;">service number</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, and </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Birthday"><span style="font-size: x-large;">date of birth</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">" and requires that under </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrogation" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Interrogation"><span style="font-size: x-large;">interrogation</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> captured military personnel should "evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability."</span><br />
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</div></div><h2 style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; border-bottom-color: rgb(170, 170, 170); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; color: black; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0.6em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0.17em; padding-top: 0.5em;"><span style="float: right; margin-left: 5px;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">]</span></span><span id="Text_of_the_code"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Text of the code</span></span></h2><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1. Code of the U.S. Fighting Force</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. As a member of the armed forces of the United States, you are protecting your nation. It is your duty to oppose all enemies of the United States in combat or, if a captive, in a prisoner of war compound. Your behavior is guided by the Code of Conduct, which has evolved from the heroic lives, experiences and deeds of Americans from the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="American Revolutionary War"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Revolutionary War</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> to </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="2003 invasion of Iraq"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Operation: Iraqi Freedom</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Your obligations as a U.S. citizen and a member of the armed forces result from the traditional values that underlie the American experience as a nation. These values are best expressed in the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="United States Constitution"><span style="font-size: x-large;">U.S. Constitution</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="United States Bill of Rights"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bill of Rights</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, which you have sworn to uphold and defend. You would have these obligations—our country, your service and unit and your fellow Americans—even if the Code of Conduct had never been formulated as a high standard of general behavior.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Just as you have a responsibility to your country under the Code of Conduct, the United States government has an equal responsibility—to keep faith with you and stand by you as you fight for your country. If you are unfortunate enough to become a prisoner of war, you may rest assured that your government will care for your dependents and will never forget you. Furthermore, the government will use every practical means to contact, support and gain release for you and for all other prisoners of war.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. To live up to the code, you must know not only its words but the ideas and principles behind those words.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">e</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. This pamphlet contains the code, an explanation of its principles and a statement of the standards expected of you.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">f</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The Code of Conduct is an ethical guide. Its six articles deal with your chief concerns as an American in combat; these concerns become critical when you must evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">g</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Experiences of captured Americans reveal that to survive captivity honorably would demand from you great courage, deep dedication and high motivation. To sustain these personal values throughout captivity requires that you understand and believe strongly in our free and democratic institutions, love your country, trust in the justice of our cause, keep faithful and loyal to your fellow prisoners and hold firmly to your religious and moral beliefs in time of trial.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">h</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Your courage, dedication and motivation supported by understanding, trust and fidelity will help you endure the terrors of captivity, prevail over your captors and return to your family, home and nation with honor and pride.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">i</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The Code of Conduct for members of the Armed Forces of the United States was first promulgated by President Dwight D. Eisenhower Aug. 17, 1955. The code, including its basic philosophy, was reaffirmed on July 8, 1964, in DOD Directive No. 1300.7. In March 1988, President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12633, amending the code with language that is gender–neutral, The code, although first expressed in written form in 1955, is based on time–honored concepts and traditions that date back to the days of the American Revolution.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">2. Code of Conduct I</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. All men and women in the armed forces have the duty at all times and under all circumstances to oppose the enemies of the United States and support its national interests. In training or in combat, alone or with others, while evading capture or enduring captivity, this duty belongs to each American defending our nation regardless of circumstances.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">3. Code of Conduct II</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. As an individual, a member of the armed forces may never voluntarily surrender. When isolated and no longer able to inflict casualties on the enemy, the American soldier has an obligation to evade capture and rejoin friendly forces.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Only when evasion by an individual is impossible and further fighting would lead only to death with no significant loss to the enemy should one consider surrender. With all reasonable means of resistance exhausted and with certain death the only alternative, capture does not imply dishonor.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The responsibility and authority of a commander never extends to the surrender of a command to the enemy while the command has the power to fight and evade. When isolated, cut off or surrounded, a unit must continue to fight until relieved or able to rejoin friendly forces through continued efforts to break out or evade the enemy.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">4. Code of Conduct III</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The duty of a member of the armed forces to use all means available to resist the enemy is not lessened by the misfortune of captivity. A POW is still legally bound by the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Uniform Code of Military Justice"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Uniform Code of Military Justice</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and ethically guided by the Code of Conduct. Under provisions of the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Third Geneva Convention"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Geneva Convention</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, a prisoner of war is also subject to certain rules imposed by the captor nation. When</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Repatriation"><span style="font-size: x-large;">repatriated</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, a prisoner of war will not be condemned for having obeyed reasonable captor rules, such as sanitation regulations. The duty of a member of the armed forces to continue to resist does not mean a prisoner should engage in unreasonable harassment as a form of resistance, retaliation by captors to the detriment of that prisoner and other prisoners is frequently the primary result of such harassment.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The Geneva Convention recognizes that a POW may have the duty to attempt escape. In fact, the Geneva Convention prohibits a captor nation from executing a POW simply for attempting escape. Under the authority of the senior official (often called the senior ranking officer, or SRO), a POW must be prepared to escape whenever the opportunity presents itself. In a POW compound, the senior POW must consider the welfare of those remaining behind after an escape. However, as a matter of conscious determination, a POW must plan to escape, try to escape and assist others to escape.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Contrary to the spirit of the Geneva Convention, many enemies who have captured American POW's since 1950, have regarded the POW compound as an extension of the battlefield. In doing so, they have used a variety of tactics and pressures, including physical and mental mistreatment, torture and medical neglect, to exploit POWs for </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Propaganda"><span style="font-size: x-large;">propaganda</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> purposes, to obtain military information or to undermine POW organization, communication and resistance.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">e</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Such enemies have attempted to lure American POWs into accepting special favors or privileges in exchange for statements, acts or information. Unless it is essential to the life or welfare of that person or another prisoner of war or to the success of efforts to resist or escape, a POW must neither seek nor accept special favors or privileges.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">f</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. One such privilege is called parole. Parole is a promise by a prisoner of war to a captor to fulfill certain conditions such as agreeing not to escape nor to fight again once released—in return for such favors as relief from physical bondage, improved food and living conditions or repatriation ahead of the sick, injured or longer–held prisoners. An American POW will never sign nor otherwise accept parole.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">5. Code of Conduct IV.</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Informing or any other action to the detriment of a fellow prisoner is despicable and is expressly forbidden. Prisoners of war must avoid helping the enemy identify fellow prisoners who may have knowledge of particular value to the enemy and who may, therefore, be made to suffer coercive interrogation.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Strong leadership and communication are essential to discipline. Discipline is the key to camp organization, resistance and even survival. Personal </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Hygiene"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hygiene</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, camp </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Sanitation"><span style="font-size: x-large;">sanitation</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and care of sick and wounded are imperative. </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_(armed_forces)" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Officer (armed forces)"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Officers</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-commissioned_officer" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Non-commissioned officer"><span style="font-size: x-large;">non-commissioned officers</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> of the United States must continue to carry out their responsibilities and exercise their authority in captivity. The senior, regardless of service, must accept command. This responsibility and accountability may not be evaded.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. If the senior is incapacitated or is otherwise unable to act, the next senior person will assume command. Camp leaders should make every effort to inform all POWs of the chain of command and try to represent them in dealing with enemy authorities. The responsibility of subordinates to obey the lawful orders of ranking American military personnel remains unchanged in captivity.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">e</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The Geneva Convention Relative to Treatment of Prisoners of War provides for election of a "prisoners' representative" in POW camps containing enlisted personnel but no commissioned officers. American POWs should understand that such a representative is only a spokesman for the actual senior ranking person. Should the enemy appoint a POW chain of command for its own purposes, American POWs should make all efforts to adhere to the principles of Article IV.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">f</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. As with other provisions of this code, common sense and the conditions of captivity will affect the way in which the senior person and the other POWs organize to carry out their responsibilities. What is important is that everyone support and work within the POW organization.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">6. Code of Conduct V.</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. When questioned, a prisoner of war is required by the Geneva Convention and this code to give name, rank, service number (</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Social Security number"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Social Security number</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">) and date of birth. The prisoner should make every effort to avoid giving the captor any additional information. The prisoner may communicate with captors on matters of health and welfare and additionally may write letters home and fill out a Geneva Convention "capture card."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to place a prisoner under physical or mental duress, torture or any other form of coercion in an effort to secure information. If under such intense coercion, a POW discloses unauthorized information, makes an unauthorized statement or performs an unauthorized act, that prisoner's peace of mind and survival require a quick recovery of courage, dedication and motivation to resist anew each subsequent coercion.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Actions every POW should resist include making oral or written confessions and apologies, answering </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questionnaire" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Questionnaire"><span style="font-size: x-large;">questionnaires</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, providing personal histories, creating propaganda recordings, broadcasting appeals to other prisoners of war, providing any other material readily usable for propaganda purposes, appealing for surrender or parole, furnishing </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Self-criticism"><span style="font-size: x-large;">self-criticisms</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and communicating on behalf of the enemy to the detriment of the United States, its allies, its armed forces or other POWs.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">e</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Every POW should also recognize that any confession signed or any statement made may be used by the enemy as a false evidence that the person is a "</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="War crime"><span style="font-size: x-large;">war criminal</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">" rather than a POW. Several countries have made </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_(law)" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Reservation (law)"><span style="font-size: x-large;">reservations</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> to the Geneva Convention in which they assert that a "war criminal" conviction deprives the convicted individual of prisoner-of-war status, removes that person from protection under the Geneva Convention and revokes all rights to repatriation until a prison sentence is served.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">f</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Recent experiences of American prisoners of war have proved that, although enemy interrogation sessions may be harsh and cruel, one can resist brutal mistreatment when the will to resist remains intact.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">g</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The best way for a prisoner to keep faith with country, fellow prisoners and self is to provide the enemy with as little information as possible.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">7. Code of Conduct VI</span></b><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div><dl style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.2em;"><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">a</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="God"><span style="font-size: x-large;">God</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and in the United States of America.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">b</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. A member of the armed forces remains responsible for personal actions at all times.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">c</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. A member of the armed forces who is captured has a continuing obligation to resist and to remain loyal to country, service, unit and fellow prisoners.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">d</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Upon repatriation, POWs can expect their actions to be reviewed, both as to circumstances of capture and conduct during detention. The purpose of such review is to recognize meritorious performance as well as to investigate possible misconduct. Each review will be conducted with due regard for the rights of the individual and consideration for the conditions of captivity; captivity of itself is not a condition of culpability.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">e</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. Members of the armed forces should remember that they and their </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependant" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Dependant"><span style="font-size: x-large;">dependents</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> will be taken care of by the appropriate service and that pay and allowances, eligibility and procedures for</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(rank)" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Promotion (rank)"><span style="font-size: x-large;">promotion</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and benefits for dependents continue while the service member is detained. Service members should assure that their personal affairs and family matters (such as pay, </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Power of attorney"><span style="font-size: x-large;">powers of attorney</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;">, current </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_(law)" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Will (law)"><span style="font-size: x-large;">will</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> and provisions for family maintenance and education) are properly and currently arranged. Failure to so arrange matters can create a serious sense of </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-repeat: initial; color: #002bb8; text-decoration: none;" title="Guilt"><span style="font-size: x-large;">guilt</span></a><span style="font-size: x-large;"> for a POW and place unnecessary hardship on family members.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-left: 2em;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">f</span></i><span style="font-size: x-large;">. The life of a prisoner of war is hard. Each person in this stressful situation must always sustain hope and resist enemy indoctrination. Prisoners of war standing firm and united against the enemy will support and inspire one another in surviving their ordeal and in prevailing over misfortune with honor.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span>
</div></dd></dl></dd></dl></span><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Having seen "A Few Good Men" (the movie with Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson), having read Pat Conroy's novels about the Citadel, having served for 16 years in a Fire Department, and being aware of the behavior of testosterone-driven young men in group situations where conformity is prized and rewarded above all else, I'm afraid I have a real hard time believing that these Marine core values go much beyond words on a printed page. I think what happens is that the Marines who fit in and bonded go around and pat themselves on the back about how wonderful they were/are, and they kind of go into denial about how they treated those who, for whatever reason, didn't quite fit in or who were perceived as the "enemy".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will wrote: “Nothing our country does is good or good enough for you. No matter what the subject you see the worst in it. If the glass is one drop shy of being full, you see it as half empty.”</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your characterization, Will, and submit that YOU are missing the point. Since you and most of your neocon "fellow travelers" seem unable or unwilling to believe, despite literally mountains of evidence to the contrary, that Americans could EVER do ANYTHING that was remotely bad or even questionable, I feel like I have to, in order to maintain some sort of balance, bend over backwards to point out the similarities between our own conduct and that of some of those other nations whom we have, at various times, branded as "evil".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I suggest that I'm actually less of an enemy of the U.S. than you are, because I passionately want America to IMPROVE, to live up to its own ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, its "Christian" origins, and its extensive mythology.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will wrote:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">“To equate the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib as as bad as what the Nazis use to do is disingenuous. Most folks make up their minds emotionally and they use logic to justify their positions. You raise this human trait to an art form, John. Your logic is faultless, but you always miss the point.”</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">*smile* I actually like the phraseology here, though of course I disagree with your characterization. Kinda like saying "The operation was a success, but the patient died." I was making a rough analogy, not equating Abu Ghraib with Dachau in some sort of mathematical way.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will wrote: “Oh...and PLEASE don't suggest that YOU are above making up your mind emotionally, then using logic to justify your position. As you say, it's a HUMAN trait. And, no I wasn't sodomized, just your basic hazing. But that makes me think, perhaps we should let those Arab prisoners room with Bubba in some federal penitentiary and they can really find out what sodomy is about.”</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">See, here we go again. Are you seriously suggesting that sodomy in federal (or state) penitentiaries is somehow legitimate in a so-called "civilized" society, a justifiable and desirable aspect of punishment/rehabilitation for criminal behavior? Are you intimating that prison guards should look the other way and allow this to go on? Or am I "missing the point" again?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The US Military spends quite a little time telling our people about what is and what is not a lawful order. You obey the lawful order, you refuse the unlawful one. I have been to numerous classes that taught this, and I have taught a few classes telling people the same thing.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I joined a new unit in Vietnam in early 1971. My first duty was to conduct an investigation. A PFC Angelsanti had knifed another Marine in an argument over a puppy. Angelsanti was dumber than a box of rocks, but not a bad guy - his version of the story was that the other Marine was playing too rough with his puppy, Angelsanti intervened, pulled his bayonet out, and the other Marine reached out and cut himself. Good story, but of course not too believable.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The next day I was assigned to teach a course about the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). In this class you tell your Marines about the law and how they should conduct themselves, what they can do, what they must not do, what civil rights they have, how to treat</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">civilians, etc.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Part of good military instruction is that you should start your session with a good attention getting joke. I found one Marine, and told him his part in the joke. Then I went out in front of the 300 or so Marines, and called them savagely to attention, and began screaming at my set up Marine. The audience, of course, thought I was a deranged lunatic (which of course is nearly correct). This was probably the first time they had been called to attention in months.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I did my best Drill Instructor screaming act, and shouted at my set up Marine that he was a disgrace to the Marine Corps. His uniform was dirty. He was incompetent. etc etc.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I then spotted the one Marine I knew in the group, PFC Angelsanti. I was on a roll now, and I shouted, PFC Angelsant "Front and Center". Angelsanti raced up, stiffly at attention.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Angelsanti, this man is a disgrace. Take him out behind the barracks and shoot him!"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Yes Sir", said Angelsanti, saluted, and then they left.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I then put all the Marines at ease, and began my lecture.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"This little act you just saw was to illustrate to you that you have civil rights. No one can treat you in this manner, and you</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">cannot follow an illegal order"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I was getting into my discussion, proud of how my little joke had caught everyone’s attention, when one of the troops said,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"Lieutentant, you better stop Angelsanti!"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So I called Angelsanti back. I imagined how I would explain the murder on our of my Marines by Angelsanti as an attention getting joke gone bad. "It was just an attention getting joke gone bad. Angelsanti didn't get the joke".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No way to explain it. A letter of apology to the family and a .45 to the head would have been the only solution. Glad I dodged that bullet.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm glad you dodged the bullet, too, Craig. But your story seems to prove MY point about not all Marines understanding and being able to follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">How, by the way, was Private Angelsanti to evaluate whether or not your order was a lawful one? And what would have happened if he, who was "dumber than a box of rocks", had evaluated incorrectly? Let's say, for example, that instead of ordering him to shoot the other Marine, you had ordered him merely to strip the other Marine naked and make him run until he passed out from heat exhaustion?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm afraid my only experiences of a similar nature derive from my 16 years in the Fire Department. I was ordered several times by a</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">particularly ignorant Assistant Chief to enter a smoke-filled burning building WITHOUT an air pack, even though air packs were readily available, it would have taken maybe 15-30 seconds to don one, and there was no compelling reason to enter the building without one except for the Assistant Chief's sadism. Going in without the air pack meant certain jeopardy to my lungs, and possibly to my life and that of others. Disobeying his order and putting on an air pack would have been insubordination, with attendant disciplinary action. In fact, on one occasion I DID disobey his order, and WAS disciplined despite the fact that I went to the hospital for smoke inhalation. In such a situation, how was I to evaluate whether his order was a "lawful" one?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Perhaps you get a bit more of a glimpse into why I am highly distrustful of "authorities", and am considerably more willing to exercise violence against them than against peasant villagers in some foreign country.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm glad to see that King Leopold of Belgium is on the list, at least, for his genocide of native African people in Congo. The list seems to be biased against America and against the European nations - even against white South Africa - for at least three reasons:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1) It limits itself to the twentieth century. Thus European colonialism (except for Leopold), the entire slave trade, and the American genocide of Native Americans, are all left out.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2) In "democracies", individual leaders tend to serve for only a short time. Just as an example, what if you lumped Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon together? How many deaths were they collectively responsible for in Viet Nam? Would they be on the list? It's interesting to me that Ho Chi Minh is on the list, but Charles DeGaulle and the three Presidents named above are not. The implication is clearly that Ho Chi Minh was somehow "responsible" for the deaths in Viet Nam, and not the white guys.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3) It limits itself to "rulers" who were responsible for "unjust, unnecessary or unnatural deaths by initiating or intensifying war, famine, democide (?) or resettlement, or by allowing people under their control to do so." All the "better people" know that Americans are NEVER responsible for unjust or unnecessary deaths. :-) </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sorry, John, but you're off on this one - there have been more people murdered under communist regimes - and I'm not referring to wars fought between communist regimes and western forces as in Viet Nam - but communist regimes in China, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia, to only name a few – have killed more people in gulags - in the past century than in all preceding 2000 years of history! There are statistics to back this up - and even these are not complete as we still do not really know how many were deported and died in Siberia, or how many of those who have "disappeared" in China are still alive or not! I have been living in Italy for 30 years - 30% of Italian national parliament and a large majority of city and regional governments are run by communist or leftist filo-communist/socialist parties whose hands are as filthy as the other parties they oppose - and their feet and mouths are ....full of shit! OK, so they were voted in - and keep on getting voted in - and the USA still considers Italy one of its closest allies?!?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm sure you're right, Marie, and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was merely suggesting that some Western nations would be SOMEWHERE on the list if the criteria were a little different.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John- That's no answer John! We have to listen to all your BS from the radical side and you just ignore the beheading of Michael Berg. You say you care about this country but I'm beginning to believe like Will said that you are nothing but an enemy of the United States. Does the US have faults, sure it does. But I'll tell you what John, There more good in this country going on than all the negative that you seem to thrive on. Like I told you once before John, you appear to be a wrecker than a builder. It's easy to tear things down but it takes time and effort to build something. My kids would call you a cop out. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just one question here. Assuming the factual truth of all these incidents, and assuming further that the incidents are somehow connected, against precisely whom do we declare war?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Traditionally, war has been fought between or among sovereign nations, or at least readily-identifiable enemies. The very nature of "terrorism", and the devilish thing about it, is that the "enemy" is fighting a guerrilla war, and is not easily associated with a particular nation. So what do we do? Just pick a nation whose politics we don't happen to like, and bomb 'em back to the Stone Age every time there's a "terrorist" incident? Declare a "crusade"against all of Islam (as Dubya did at one point) because we think that the terrorists in question (inevitably a tiny minority) are Islamic?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Difficult as it may be, I don't see any rational alternative to treating terrorism as a police matter rather than as a "war". The solution, in my view, is to increase our cooperation with other nations of ALL stripes, while at the same time working honestly and forthrightly to eliminate the root causes of terrorism. Interpol seems to work quite well, and could be expanded. NO nation wants suicide bombings going on all the time within its borders and cities.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I agree with you on this one, John. The War on Terrorism will be long and nasty, and some clowns will be killing people all over the world. Hard to stop with military action.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">mcbhnt@a...</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">" Lest we forget!"</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Here is a copy of a speech U.S. Navy Capt. Ouimette, XO at NAS, Pensacola gave recently. It is an account that most people don't connect.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23 years.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder. The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Snooze alarm is depressed again. Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year, this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just one question here. Assuming the factual truth of all these incidents, and assuming further that the incidents are somehow connected, against precisely whom do we declare war?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Traditionally, war has been fought between or among sovereign nations, or at least readily-identifiable enemies. The very nature of "terrorism", and the devilish thing about it, is that the "enemy" is fighting a guerrilla war, and is not easily associated with a particular nation. So what do we do? Just pick a nation whose politics we don't happen to like, and bomb 'em back to the Stone Age every time there's a "terrorist" incident? Declare a "crusade" against all of Islam (as Dubya did at one point) because we think that the terrorists in question (inevitably a tiny minority) are Islamic?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Difficult as it may be, I don't see any rational alternative to treating terrorism as a police matter rather than as a "war". The solution, in my view, is to increase our cooperation with other nations of ALL stripes, while at the same time working honestly and forthrightly to eliminate the root causes of terrorism. Interpol seems to work quite well, and could be expanded. NO nation wants suicide bombings going on all the time within its borders and cities.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I get a lot of messages like this from current servicemen in Iraq, and the people back home that they emailing. A lot of them seem to have the same feelings we had in Vietnam - they thought they were doing a good job under difficult circumstnaces, but many people back home thought things were going badly. Of course you can't blame the press for concentrating on the bad things, since they are noteworthy, but the guys in theater don't understand that.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">-------Original Message-------</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hello NBC; Hello CBS; Hello ABC; Hello CNN; Anyone home? Folks, this needs to be sent to every newspaper and American in the USA. Who says we don't have heroes? Here's one for you! Somehow we have to stop giving news time to victims and let America hear about our real heroes!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Maybe you'd like to hear about something other than idiot Reservists and naked Iraqis. Maybe you'd like to hear about a real American, somebody who</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">honored the uniform he wears. Meet Brian Chontosh.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Churchville-Chili Central School class of 1991. Proud graduate of the Rochester Institute of Technology. Husband and about-to-be father. First</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">lieutenant (now promoted to Captain) in the United States Marine Corps.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And a genuine hero.The secretary of the Navy said so yesterday. At 29 Palms in California Brian Chontosh was presented with the Navy Cross, the second highest award for combat bravery the United States can bestow. That's a big deal.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But you won't see it on the network news tonight, and all you read in Brian's hometown newspaper was two paragraphs of nothing. Instead, it was more</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">blather about some mental defective MPs who acted like animals.The odd fact about the American media in this war is that it's not covering the American</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">military. The most plugged-in nation in the world is receiving virtually no true information about what its warriors are doing.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Oh, sure, there's a body count. We know how many Americans have fallen. And we see those same casket pictures day in and day out. And we're almost on a first-name basis with the pukes who abused the Iraqi prisoners. And we know all about improvised explosive devices and how we lost Fallujah and what Arab public-opinion polls say about us and how the world hates us.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We get a non-stop feed of gloom and doom.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But we don't hear about the heroes.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The incredibly brave GIs who honorably do their duty. The ones our grandparents would have carried on their shoulders down Fifth Avenue.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The ones we completely ignore.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Like Brian Chontosh.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was a year ago on the march into Baghdad. Brian Chontosh was a platoon leader rolling up Highway 1 in a humvee.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When all hell broke loose.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ambush city.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The young Marines were being cut to ribbons. Mortars, machine guns, rocket propelled grenades. And the kid out of Churchville was in charge. It was do or</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">die and it was up to him.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So he moved to the side of his column, looking for a way to lead his men to safety. As he tried to poke a hole through the Iraqi line his humvee came</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">under direct enemy machine gun fire.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It was fish in a barrel and the Marines were the fish.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And Brian Chontosh gave the order to attack. He told his driver to floor the humvee directly at the machine gun emplacement that was firing at them. And</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">he had the guy on top with the .50 cal unload on them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Within moments there were Iraqis slumped across the machine gun and Chontosh was still advancing, ordering his driver now to take the humvee</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">directly into the Iraqi trench that was attacking his Marines. Over into the battlement the humvee went and out the door Brian Chontosh bailed, carrying an</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">M16 and a Beretta and 228 years of Marine Corps pride.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And he ran down the trench.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">With its mortars and riflemen, machineguns and grenadiers.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And he killed them all.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He fought with the M16 until it was out of ammo. Then he fought with the Beretta until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up a dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up another dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">At one point he even fired a discarded Iraqi RPG into an enemy cluster, sending attackers flying with its grenade explosion.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When he was done Brian Chontosh had cleared 200 yards of entrenched Iraqis from his platoon's flank. He had killed more than 20 and wounded at least as many more.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But that's probably not how he would tell it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">He would probably merely say that his Marines were in trouble, and he got them out of trouble. Hoo-ah, and drive on.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire, and utmost devotion to duty, 1st Lt. Chontosh reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That's what the citation says.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And that's what nobody will hear.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That's what doesn't seem to be making the evening news. Accounts of American valor are dismissed by the press as propaganda, yet accounts of</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">American difficulties are heralded as objectivity. It makes you wonder if the role of the media is to inform, or to depress - to report or to deride. To tell the truth, or to feed us lies.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But I guess it doesn't matter.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We're going to turn out all right.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As long as men like Brian Chontosh wear our uniform.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Semper Fi !</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think the Vietnam and Korean wars can best be understood as part of our</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">contest with international communism. The cold and hot war took place from after World War II until about 1990. We won when the strongest communist country, the Soviet Union and other eastern block countries stood down, and began their change to a free capitalist democracy.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And a wonderful victory it was. The world lived under the continued threat of a nuclear war, which so far we have managed to avoid. You all remember the fun nuclear war drills in grade school. And judging from the historic acts of most countries, I believe the fact that we had a strong military kept us from being defeated. Weak countries have always been defeated by strong countries. No military, those of us left would have learned Russian.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As John points out, Communism was not monolithic, and each country had it's own brand. But most regimes were very bad. Their death camps were serious death camps, greatly exceeding anything the western democracies ever did.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One of the worst things America did in World War II was the Japanese</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">internments. We had very good Japanese American friends who never talked about the internment. When the US apologized and paid each internee, they finally discussed their experience.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">They were teenagers. Their families were given 48 hours to pack up and move to the camp.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Etsu still has a copy of the welcome aboard brochure that she received. It was entitled "Welcome to Camp ( _____". The cover was an illustration of the camp showing the barracks, the watch towers at the corners of the camp, all surrounded by Barbed wire. The mimeographed brochure explained the rules of the camp.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Amazing. And disgraceful. But it was no death camp or torture chamber. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nothing like the gulags that Stalin or Mao or Ho Chi Minh or Pol Pot ran. My friends Etsu and Henry worked, earned money, and went to school.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So we are a long way from perfect. And we need always to try harder. And when some of our people screw up and commit crimes, we need to punish them, apologize and move on. But we also must not beat ourselves up when a few people embarass with crimes.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This sounds reasonable. If you, Craig, and the rest of our</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">classmates will go on record as being willing and ready to do all</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">within your power - and I do mean ALL - to depose and punish this</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">current crop of deathmongers and war profiteers - Bush, Cheney,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rumsfield, Ashcroft, Rice, etc., as well as corporate criminals like</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kenneth Lay and his ilk - then I'll shut up and quit beating up on</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">myself and our beloved nation....until the next time. :-)</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie K</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John- Holy cow, did the Red Sea part or am I dreaming??? I don't care what they say about you John, maybe your not all bad after all! :) Charlie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I don't care what they say about me either. I've been basking in the afterglow of this newfound harmony for a few days now, not saying anything, but I honestly don't know why you're surprised. I'm all about equity and justice....consistently, across the board. No exceptions for oily politicians, corporate crooks, or the media who are owned by them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our military personnel - always disproportionately minorities and poor, and now swelled with an unusual number of reservists – are dupes of the system, too, and deserve not only superficial expressions of gratitude but adequate compensation for their service to their country, however misguided that service may be.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our nation - like most nations, I imagine - has a long history of using up ordinary working stiffs (including the military), then throwing them on the trash heap when they're of no further use. In our own lifetimes we've seen the Veterans' Administration deny compensation or liability for Agent Orange, post-traumatic stress disorder, and more recently Gulf War sydrome. Black soldiers were paid less than white soldiers in the Civil War, and in EVERY war black soldiers have served America with courage, dignity, and the expectation that their faithful military service would be recognized with equal treatment as civilians, only to be bitterly disappointed when they arrived home. Many black AND white soldiers didn't fare very well after Viet Nam.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Even an overpaid dittohead like Rush Limbaugh - now THERE'S a guy who consistently emphasizes the negative, and is incredibly well rewarded for it - gets it right once in a while. As for our national legislators, though Rush got a few details about their pensions wrong, he was correct that they've voted themselves a very cushy retirement indeed. Not to mention the many other perks of "public service" at that level. It's no wonder that they spend millions of dollars (a lot of it contributed by saps like us, more of it contributed by corporations with much to gain) to get elected to a job that pays somewhere around $150,000 a year.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It's been a pleasure crossing the Red Sea with you, Charlie. What shall we do now that we're on the other side?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The interesting and noteworthy thing is that you continue to spout these platitudes without having the slightest idea - or very little - of what my life consists of or how I got where I am. Your time would be much better spent, and your ostensible concern would appear more</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">genuine, if you actually took the trouble to find out who I am, and listened when I tell you.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You've also frequently talked about how "intelligent" I am and how much "potential" I have, and you've told the story about how you were rescued in part because someone in Arizona offered you actual tangible help in the form of a job. If you're sincere, why don't you</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hire me, or get one of your wealthy friends or clients to hire me?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'd be delighted to sit on two or three corporate boards and give them the benefit of my wisdom and experience. I'm a good writer,</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">too, as you know, and could write the corporation's annual report while standing on my head.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But let me tell you a bit more about my life. To start with, I'm a genuine American hero. Very similar to those veterans Rush Limbaugh talked about, I served my country/community as a firefighter for 16 years, saving lives and property while NOT killing anyone. I risked my life daily, and if Purple Hearts were awarded to firefighters for injuries in "combat", I'd have about ten times as many as John Kerry has, and an infinite number more than George Bush, who never actually served in combat. Yet I got no Purple Hearts or other medals, never earned more than $26,000 in a year, and my disability pension, which hasn't gone up a dime since 1990, is $12,000/year. I have no medical insurance now, and when I reach age 65 I will have neither Social Security nor Medicare. None whatsoever.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If we are to feel concern and do something for our undercompensated military personnel, as Rush Limbaugh and Charlie suggest, should we not likewise do something for our undercompensated firefighters and police officers? Am I unrealistic to have expectations" about that in the richest country in the world? Is the problem merely a lack of positive thinking on my part, or is it more an absence of justice and equity on America's part?</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Now as it happens, I have four male friends here in Champaign - Urbana. Three of them - the three who are around my age - are quasi-</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">homeless, meaning that they live from month to month or day to day in cramped hovels at the mercy of friends/aquaintances, and occasionally in homeless shelters. Two of those three, both with college degrees, can't find employment and have no income beyond the occasional part-time day job, while the third, also with a college degree, has SSI disability. Three of the four friends don't own a working automobile, and the fourth has one that cost him $250, so you can imagine what that's like. None of them has an alcohol or drug habit,though one of the four does have a minor criminal record which makes it more difficult for him to find employment, and creates a vicious cycle in his life.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While all of them have more positive attitudes than I do - because, in my view, they are in denial and haven't yet confronted the true</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hopelessness of their situations - the three older men without jobs all have some form of mental maladjustment, as indeed I now do, which is far more complex and intractable than you'd like it to be. (Interestingly, none but me has a PHYSICAL disability that I'm aware</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">of; they're not sick or in pain, and exercise regularly.) Though they're not insane and are actually quite intelligent and interesting to talk to, they have had their mental problems for years, and it's no longer (if it ever was) a matter of simply deciding that they're going to start looking at things in a more positive light. (They already do, though unrealistically.) Nor is it a matter of simply popping a pill every day to regulate their neurotransmitters. They have low self-esteem and few if any marketable skills, they feel helpless to change their lives, they can't figure out anything to do, they have long histories of homelessness and huge gaps in their resumes. Like me, they have all had significantly bad experiences with the "system", and are pretty distrustful of it. Being men, none</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">of them has a spouse to take care of them, financially or otherwise. I'm guessing you don't actually know anyone like them, Will.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As for gratitude, I am in fact exceedingly grateful that I have a basement apartment where they can come and visit me (and where two of them have stayed for varying periods of time), and that I can buy them a restaurant meal every now and then. I only wish I could do more for them. They - only two of whom know each other at all - comprise a very modest support network for me, though without cars and money it's difficult for them to lend much in the way of meaningful tangible support. I, with more resources than any of the</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">rest of them, do most of the tangible supporting, though there's an element of pyschological support which they are able to provide.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Libertarians - of which I understand, Will, that you are one - believe that they shouldn't have to help anyone through their taxes, which is "the government holding a gun to their head". They don't believe in anything like Rousseau's "social contract". Instead, they feel that all assistance to others should be voluntary and "altruistic". The fundamental problem with that philosophy is, of course, that libertarians tend to be well-off Caucasians who don't actually know - and don't WANT to know - any poor people or minorities. Therefore they're not aware of anyone who is deserving or needful of their assistance, and they complacently spout incredibly misinformed and harmful cliches about the poor being lazy, popping out babies, etc., without remotely understanding the underlying social structure that creates such conditions. The rich give to one another - a principle honed to a fine art by the Bush administration - just as banks loan money to those who already have money and withhold it from those who need it the most.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Along these lines if you get a chance to see the movie What the #@! *# do We Know? it is a documentary on quantum mechanics and God. You get what you think, in other words. It is in theaters here for a few more days at least. The manager of the theater said it had about 20 people a day seeing it when it opened, and now sells out some shows. Fascinating stuff.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John, if you want to go see it, I'll pay for the ticket and snacks.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kind of you, Will, though transportation to Prescott, AZ might be</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">prohibitive. :-) I'll probably wait until it comes out on video at the library. Meanwhile, can you give me a brief synopsis? Do our thoughts send out quarks or some sort of electromagnetic force field which alter the reality around us? Sounds fascinating.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm sure we'll never fully resolve this "half-empty" vs. "half-full" debate, Will. I do hope, though, that all of us can try a little harder to truly listen to those whose life experience is different from our own.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John's comment about the affluent and baked goods is a telling one. Obviously your world view of the glass always being half empty was established early in life. As a child I remember resenting not having many of the niceties many of my friend's families enjoyed. We always had used cars and I never had a new bike. My mom ran our household on $25 per week in the late 50's as we scrimped a lot to provide for my brother who spent most of his early years in the hospital. But I wasn't raised to think the other folks in the neighborhood were bad because of it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nor was I. My mother, after surviving cancer in 1957, used to look out the kitchen window every morning and thank God for another day of life. She has never verbally expressed resentment or jealousy of anyone who had more than she, and denies vehemently that she harbors any. Now, at age 92 and blind, she still claims to look forward to each new day, and doesn't want to die. I don't even pretend to understand her attitude, but there it is.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Nevertheless we bought our bread at the A & P, had store-bought cookies, and didn't patronize bakeries. And my former sister-in-law, who didn't resent wealthier people either, was unable to buy the 20- lb. sack of potatoes. Some things are just reality. I did have one new bike in my youth, though - a Ranger, because we couldn't afford a Schwinn - and my parents did have the Negro lawn jockeys and a plentiful supply of cigarettes, so perhaps it was just a matter of priorities.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think a significant degree of our attitude is determined by heredity. My father and his side of the family were consistently and predictably more negative then my mother and her family. I seem to take after my dad in many way, including that one.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our attitude is also determined by a complex combination of our own response to negative events in our lives, and the impact of subsequent events. Trouble, said some evangelist whose name I have now forgotten, will make us either BITTER or BETTER. My "half-empty" attitude which you decry didn't really arise until I was in my thirties, when all hell broke loose and I lost virtually everything I had worked very hard for, through no obvious fault of my own. Had I subsequently been able to recover, I'm quite sure that I would once again have a "half-full" attitude, as I did in my twenties when things were going reasonably well. That's not how it played out, though.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Another way of saying it is that most people have some combination of successes and failures in their lives, and the successes help them to deal with the setbacks. If all you've had is failures and setbacks, it's exceedingly difficult to have a "half-full" attitude.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Finally, our attitude is determined by the discrepancy (or lack thereof) between our reality and our expectations. This is why blacks in the sixties actually became more "belligerent" once their expectations of equality were raised by Brown v. Board of Education in 1954-55, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, yet their perceived reality didn't change much. In my own case, a lot of my anger derives from the discrepancy between America's rhetoric (which creates expectations) of equal opportunity and "justice" under the "rule of law", and its reality of a two-tiered system where the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, and where justice in the courts and in most areas of life goes primarily to those who can afford to pay for it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In my mind affluence is a state of mind. One can be surrounded by wealth and feel miserly and without, yet others with little in the way of financial resources choose to lead lives of abundance. One's attitude creates their reality.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Again, this is much more complex than you make it. The people with little in the way of financial resources who "choose" to lead lives of abundance - and I don't personally know too many of those - generally have a support network of some sort, such as a close-knit family. There's also a lower limit below which it's virtually impossible to live a life of abundance. If you're homeless, hungry, ill and without medical care, etc., it would take an extremely strong "state of mind" to be living a "life of abundance".</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will “ You too, John, could feel abundant and even affluent by being grateful for what you have rather than dwelling on what you don't have.”</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Along these lines if you get a chance to see the movie What the #@! *# do We Know? It is a documentary on quantum mechanics and God. You get what you think, in other words. It is in theaters here for a few more days at least. The manager of the theater said it had about 20 people a day seeing it when it opened, and now sells out some shows. Fascinating stuff.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John, if you want to go see it, I'll pay for the ticket and snacks.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Kind of you, Will, though transportation to Prescott, AZ might be prohibitive. :-) I'll probably wait until it comes out on video at the library. Meanwhile, can you give me a brief synopsis? Do our thoughts send out quarks or some sort of electromagnetic force field which alter the reality around us? Sounds fascinating.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm sure we'll never fully resolve this "half-empty" vs. "half-full" debate, Will. I do hope, though, that all of us can try a little harder to truly listen to those whose life experience is different from our own.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">thought this was worth the salt..</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">By Ben Stein:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">How Can Someone Who Lives in Insane Luxury Be a Star in Today's World?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As I begin to write this, I "slug" it, as we writers say, which means I put a heading on top of the document to identify it. This heading is "eonlineFINAL," and it gives me a shiver to write it. I have been doing this column for so long that I cannot even recall when I started.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I loved writing this column so much for so long I came to believe it would never end. It worked well for a long time, but gradually, my changing as a person and the world's change have overtaken it. On a small scale, Morton's, while better than ever, no longer attracts as many stars as it used to. It still brings in the rich people in droves and definitely some stars.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I saw Samuel L. Jackson there a few days ago, and we had a nice visit, and right before that, I saw and had a splendid talk with Warren Beatty in an elevator, in which we agreed that Splendor in the Grass was a super movie.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But Morton's is not the star galaxy it once was, though it probably will be again.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Beyond that, a bigger change has happened. I no longer think Hollywood stars are terribly important. They are uniformly pleasant, friendly people, and they treat me better than I deserve to be treated. But a man or woman who makes a huge wage</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">for memorizing lines and reciting them in front of a camera is no longer my idea of a shining star we should all look up to.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">How can a man or woman who makes an eight-figure wage and lives in insane luxury really be a star in today's world, if by a "star" we mean someone bright and powerful and attractive as a role model? Real stars are not riding around in the backs of limousines or in Porsches or getting trained in yoga or Pilates and eating only raw fruit while they have Vietnamese girls do their nails. They can be interesting, nice people, but they are not heroes to me any longer.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">A real star is the soldier of the 4th Infantry Division who poked his head into a hole on a farm near Tikrit, Iraq. He could have been met by a bomb or a hail of AK-47 bullets. Instead, he faced an abject Saddam Hussein and the gratitude of all of the decent people of the world. A real star is the U.S. soldier who was sent to disarm a bomb next to a road north of Baghdad. He approached it, and the bomb went off and killed him. A real star, the kind who haunts my memory night and day, is the U.S. soldier in Baghdad who saw a little girl playing with a piece of unexploded ordnance on a street near where he was guarding a station. He pushed her aside and threw himself on it just as it exploded. He left a family desolate in California and a little girl alive in Baghdad.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The stars who deserve media attention are not the ones who have lavish weddings on TV but the ones who patrol the streets of Mosul even after two of their buddies were murdered and their bodies battered and stripped for the sin of trying to protect Iraqis from terrorists.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We put couples with incomes of $100 million a year on the covers of our magazines. The noncoms and officers who barely scrape by on military pay but stand on guard in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and in submarines and near the Arctic Circle are anonymous as they live and die.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I am no longer comfortable being a part of the system that has such poor values, and I do not want to perpetuate those values by pretending that who is eating at Morton's is a big subject.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There are plenty of other stars in the American firmament. The policemen and women who go off on patrol in South Central and have no idea if they will return alive. The orderlies and paramedics who bring in people who have been in terrible accidents and prepare them for surgery. The teachers and nurses who throw their whole spirits into caring for autistic children. The kind men and women who work in hospices and in cancer wards.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Think of each and every fireman who was running up the stairs at the World Trade Center as the towers began to collapse.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Now you have my idea of a real hero.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are not responsible for the operation of the universe, and what happens to us is not terribly important. God is real, not a fiction, and when we turn over our lives to Him, he takes far better care of us than we could ever do for ourselves.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In a word, we make ourselves sane when we fire ourselves as the directors of the movie of our lives and turn the power over to Him. I came to realize that life lived to help others is the only one that matters. This is my highest and best use as a human.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I can put it another way. Years ago, I realized I could never be as great an actor as Olivier or as good a comic as Steve Martin--or Martin Mull or Fred</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Willard--or as good an economist as Samuelson or Friedman or as good a writer as Fitzgerald. Or even remotely close to any of them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But I could be a devoted father to my son, husband to my wife and, above all, a good son to the parents who had done so much for me. This came to be my main task in life.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I did it moderately well with my son, pretty well with my wife and well indeed with my parents (with my sister's help). I cared for and paid attention to them in their declining years. I stayed with my father as he got sick, went into extremis and then into a coma and then entered immortality with my sister and me reading him the Psalms.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This was the only point at which my life touched the lives of the soldiers in Iraq or the firefighters in New York. I came to realize that life lived to help others is the only one that matters and that it is my duty, in return for the lavish life God has devolved upon me, to help others He has placed in my path. This is my highest and best use as a human.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig H</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S098ZYHQ6wI/AAAAAAAABgc/8WtwBO6AnZ0/s1600-h/WWII2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S098ZYHQ6wI/AAAAAAAABgc/8WtwBO6AnZ0/s640/WWII2.jpg" /></span></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">My parents and I went to the WW II Memorial dedication in Washington DC.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Memorial is for all the "Greatest Generation", those who served in the military and the home front who supported them from 1941-45. Our parents and gradparents generation. Fun meeting the veterans who stopped the Nazi's, fascists, and imperialists, and liberated big parts of Europe and Asia.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And interesting to see how many baby boomers who were there, with and without a parent. Those without were ususally honoring their parents. Lots of people walking up to WWII veterans, and thanking them for their service.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S098kHaLTBI/AAAAAAAABgk/gbzGTrYzQh0/s1600-h/natww2memorial-706854.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="320" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S098kHaLTBI/AAAAAAAABgk/gbzGTrYzQh0/s320/natww2memorial-706854.jpg" width="218" /></span></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">The memorial is great and grand, beautifully located between the Washington and Lincoln Monument. The architectural criticism is wrong - this is a great monument. And it is a monument to an entire group of Americans - the 144,000,000 Americans who fought or supported the war. Much more democratic and appropriate than most of our monuments, erected for a single person.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Only about 1/4 of the vets are still alive 4,000,000 left out of 16,000,000.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The monument is very different than the Vietnam memorial. It is larger, more grand, more celebratory, which it should be. It was a much bigger and more celebratory War. WWII was also a unique time, when the country was united, as opposed to most times, like Vietnam, the present, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War. But the Vietnam memorial is still very powerful and positive.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My father’s comments below:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The dedication ceremony was fantistic but long. Even though the weather was perfect, we got sunburn and sore muscles. We arrived at DC in the middle of the afternoon on Friday and tried to get a a look at the memorial but the traffic and and crowds held us to just a glimpse (and the camera was in the car!!) We went back early Sat. and our seats were at the east end of the mall fairly close to the Capital building and about a mile from the memorial.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We left Louise to hold our seats and Craig and I decided to walk to the memorial for pictures but when we got there it was closed off to people. Probably a good thing.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If 150,000 all tried to do the same thing, it would have been chaos. But my walking legs haven't recovered yet.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">They had lots of huge TV screens in all the seating areas so we could hear and see all the activities very well. Actually they started music and acts about 10:00AM , had the stuff you may have seen at 12:00 to 2:00, and then went right on with other stuff for the outlying crowds.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig had got us reservations in the Fort Belvoir BOQ which turned out to be real nice. But they had lots of security people out checking on credentials. We had ID and drivers licenses but they wanted proof that we owned the car. Our insurance cards didn't seem to help although why we would have been paying insurance on a terrorist car escapes me. Anyhow they wouldn't let us in. Craig asked what would they do if we had flown in and rented a car which is what most people might do. They said we would then a contract from the car rental company which would show proof of ownership. So, after appealing to all the authorities including trying to get confirmation on our car from Chicago (the coputers were down!!!), we went out and rented a beat up old SUV, parked our car in his lot for two days, and were admitted with no trouble.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What they didn't know was that the hole in the wall company we rented the car from was run by a Syrian emigrant and neither they or we bothered to check his credentials or foreign allegiances!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I should point out at I was discarged from Ft.Belvoir in 1945 and no one seemed to recognize me either. So much for the Army. I should also admit that Craig stopped in to Marine Base at Quantico to show us around and they just saluted him and waved him in in our suspect car. Maybe the Marines are better???</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">After we got our car back on Sunday morning, we drove back to DC to get some pictures of the memorial. But even at 8AM the crowds were big and my pictures will have lots of strangers in them.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charlie</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig- That was so neat that you took your parents to see the new WW II Memorial. The Memorial has certainly been long overdue considering what that generation did for our country and the civilized world. They say that there are 1100 WW II veterans dying a day. Here in St. Louis we have Jefferson Barracks National Cemetary and it has over 152,000 persons buried there from the civil war to the present. It takes your breath away to go there as it did Arlington National Cemetary in Washington, D.C.. Did you know Arlington use to be the plantation of Robert E. Lee? During the Civil War some Northern General took it over and made it a cemetary for Union soldiers to be a slap in the face for Lee supporting the South. If anyone has never been to our nations capital they should really go. There is so much history there and things to see and do. We stayed in Manassas, Virginia and rode the light rail into D.C. every day and came up from the station in front of the Smithsonian each day. We were in D.C. the fall of 2000. Both the Korean and Viet Nam Memorials are very special. One of the neatest places was Ford's Theater where Lincoln was shot. They have a terrific museum in the basement of the theater.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But one interesting thing that I found in 1999 was that there were virtually no men our age in Danang. I hoped to meet a few of the Vietnamese I served with, and perhaps connect with some Vietcong or NVA. But I only found one individual, a Catholic Priest, who was our age. He was in the "reeducation camp" for 17 years after the war. And he could not of course talk about his experiences.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">My conclusion - The men our age either:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1. Escaped with the boat people</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2. Were killed outright</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3. Worked / tortured to death in the camps</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">4. Or are still in the camps</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Probably all of the above. And I think there is a good chance that the genocide in Vietnam exceeded that of Cambodia.</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The anti war movement will of course never acknowledge their role in any of this.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I doubt it has ever occurred to them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No, for the simple reason that we felt, and still feel, that the U.S. had no business being in Viet Nam in the first place, and that our involvement, like that of the French before us, contributed to the chaos and the genocide. We supported a corrupt South Vietnamese regime that hardly anyone in Viet Nam, including the South Vietnamese army, supported. The people who were killed, forced to escape, or sent to "reeducation camps" after we departed were primarily those who had supported, or were perceived to have supported, the corrupt South Vietnamese regime and the American occupation of Viet Nam. Had we never gotten involved in Viet Nam, the entire country would have been united sooner under some form of communist government led by Ho Chi Minh. You can argue that that wouldn't have been a desirable thing, but at least there probably wouldn't have been the bloodbath. At the VERY least, we wouldn't have shared responsibility for it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The problem with the "domino theory" was, and still is, that (1) it presumes that communism is some sort of monolithic system of government, which is as ridiculous as saying that all "democracies" are identical, and (2) it presumes that no one in the countries involved WANTS communism. The reality is that the peasants in a given country may be living miserable lives under the prevailing system of government - usually some sort of monarchy or military dictatorship - and may feel that ANY system of government is preferable to the one that they are suffering under. They may WANT communism, which promises them greater equality. Sure, communism may not deliver on its promises, and it may take the peasants quite a few years to find out that communism isn't so hot either. But it was what they thought they wanted at the time.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Even assuming that the United States imposed "democracy" on other countries - which it most emphatically does NOT most of the time - the U.S., as a practical matter, simply can't go all around the world saying "Here, take our version of democracy and free-market capitalism whether you want to or not, because it's GOOD FOR YOU." The citizens of a given country or region have to "work out their own salvation with fear and trembling", for better or for worse.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Battalion_24th_Marines"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Battalion_24th_Marines</span></a><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.marines.mil/community/marineweekchicago/Pages/MarineHistory1.aspx"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.marines.mil/community/marineweekchicago/Pages/MarineHistory1.aspx</span></a><br />
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</span><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;">________</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the producers &</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after the Wild West was tame & created a business of trying to get MORE for nothing.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, Militant Middle-Aged Moderate replies</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No picking on liberals, Will. It is not fair or balanced.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">5 Pushups.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, you radical militant moderates always frost me.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Personally, I am a moderately schizoid conservative libertarian liberal,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">myself, strident, yet oh-so centrist, with a mildly nutty aftertaste.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">What conservative biased crapp.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">*smile* Yeah, but don't blame Craig, Sue. He's a fair and balanced</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">militant muddle-aged moderate. :-) He's the pushup czar.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The thing Will posted, though, was too moronic to comment on. I</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">think Will deserves FAR more than 5 pushups.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Forget the 5 pushups, how about 5 minutes on the Rack?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Eeeeuuuuuwwwwww! Do you have whips and spurs, too, little girl?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Militant Middle-Aged Moderate replies:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Torture? Sue, that is a little harsh, even for a Conservative male who probably deserves it.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It is true, however, that the gentle and fair sex have had a reputation as cruel torturers. The famous Kipling poem about the British war in Afghanistan in the 19th century goes something like this:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When you are wounded and left on Afghanistans Plains</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And the women come out to cut up what remains</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just pick up your rifle and blow out your brains</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And go to your grave like a soldier</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Just think what you could have done to Will back then. Progress ruins everything.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And Will, on sober reflection, you and Sue can have 5 minutes of Rack Time. Conjures up an interesting image, don’t you think? </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig and Will, you two make me laugh....seriously. I'm told, the only</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">torturing I'm capable of is with my cooking. Hey, God gave me many</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">talents....cooking isn't one of them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">At the next reunion, remind me to give you each a box of my 'killer' oatmeal cookies!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Remember, whoever wins, is the President.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Accept whoever wins with grace, and limit your rancor.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">No bloviating.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Or else, many 1,000's of pushups.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">All those guilty of rude comments, 50 pushups.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Allright, we are all too old to do 50 pushups. Pushups until you can't do</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">any more. (Not very many in my case).</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Reasonable people can disagree reasonably.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Unreasonable people attack the man, and not his argument.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Email discussions are interesting. In many ways we are more frank and</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">hostile then in an actual conversation.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">For the guys, at lease, we don't usually get so rude in face to face</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">communication since the other guy might clock you. All though we are</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">probably too old for that also.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So, be nice. Or else more pushups.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dear Militant Middle-Aged Moderate,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Republicans say they're "pro-life", yet they seem to derive a certain</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">visceral orgasmic pleasure from war and capital punishment and dog-eat-dog capitalism. I'm so CONFUSED! Should I do the right....errr, left....errr, proper thing and become a "liberal"?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">How do YOU deal with such apparent hypocrisy, MMM?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sincerely,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hopelessly confused in the Heartland</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">M3 responds</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Life is difficult. Issues are confusing. There are thoughtful people on</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">both the left and the right. And then there are screaming lunatics on both fringes, as well. And there are goofy moderates, also.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You could join a monastery, and live a life of quiet contemplation, chanting and praying and humming and bowing and scraping. I am thinking about this course of action. Perhaps we could find one together, pursue and find the answers, and then go into the Guru business, teaching others the way, the truth, and the light.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This looks like an excellent monastery. They are HIndu, so I think sex is ok. Looks like a bunch of old guys like us. And it is in Hawaii. SUCH A DEAL!!!</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">http://www.himalayanacademy.com/ssc/hawaii/</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hi Craig,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm interested in learning WHY you think it's our (USA) business to stick</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Its nose in everywhere in the world? We have our own do'do's to clean up in the USA, without having to go running off to pooper scoop everywhere else on this planet.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We don't see the French or German's landing on our shores, teaching us</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">a lesson or two, on how to fairly treat every nationality "</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig replies:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Well, we have not seen the French on our shores since the French and</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Indian Wars, in Illinois yet, and the Hessians in the Revolution and German U Boats in WW II.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">But I am not fond of wars. Wars suck, and should be avoided whenever</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">possible. But sometimes you have to fight. Reasonable people can debate</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">about whether we should have fought any wars, or some wars.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Which wars would you have fought, and which ones would you have ducked?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WW II? Let Hitler and Tojo reach their destiny?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The BIG FRACAS with Communism? Let Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot reach their destiny?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The War with the Terrorists? Let them reach their destiny?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Soldiers, like police officers, have always been primarily tools of the ruling class.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I wish someone could cite me an example of a war, since World War II, where American soldiers were actually or fundamentally fighting for Freedom.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig, Tool of the Ruling Class responds</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John, there you go again. My theory is that you were missing my missives, and knew I would respond. And so to please you I will reply.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. I think most of the wars we fought were for many complex reasons.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">War is bad, and undesirable. To be avoided if possible. Motivations for</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">fighting wars are usually complex, and are fought for a variety of reasons. Most of the wars we fought had many confusing motives, but a major one was safeguarding our homeland - the land of the free. Always has been, always will be. It is a legitimate motive.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We almost always state and many of us believe that our wars are partly for the freedom of the people we were assisting, at least in theory. And I believe in fact.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WW II - The Nazi's, Italian Fascists, and Japanese were pretty bad guys. Glad they did not win. Pleased that you agree. Our parents fought well. We fought for a lot of reasons, to keep our freedom and safety, and freed a lot of other people.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"THE BIG FRACAS" – The Cold War - Struggle against Communism - Long Struggle of the west against the east. The “mostly free, capitalist west” against the “mostly non free communist east.” A lot of people think that the millions and millions and millions of people that the Communist east enslaved and murdered made them less than desirable. And then of course a lot of other people thought that Communism was a fine thing, that they were just misunderstood, and if we all just sat around singing Kumbaya everything would be alright, and any way as long as number one was not inconvenienced it was ok.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">There were numerous cold and hot conflicts in the BIG FRACAS.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Korea - The Communist North Korea decided to take over South Korea. The United Nations fought that one to keep the south independent of the north. North Korea was and is a gulag, killed numerous people, starved many people, and continues to do so. Terrible place. The South is a pretty nice and pretty free country, in large part because of the brave soldiers who fought there.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We fought that one in part for freedom, and succeeded.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Taiwan - Numerous tussles with Communist China - Cold War. Kept Taiwan free. Taiwan is a prosperous and relatively free democracy. The PRC was a gulag, killing and enslaving many millions.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We fought that one in part for freedom, and part to keep our country safe and free.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Numerous shadowy struggles all over the world, eastern Europe, Central and South America, Indonesia, Cuba, etc. The Communist strategy was to destabilize and then take over the government. The strategy was very successful in many places - Eastern Europe, China, Cuba, southeast Asia. Other countries in South and Central America and Africa flirted with Communism.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We fought these shadowy wars in part for freedom, and part to keep our country safe.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Southeast Asia Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos - "Our War". “The Baby Boomer War” </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Communist North Vietnam was a very bad country. A gulag. Numerous people voted with their feet to leave. Millions more died in the killing fields. We know more about what happened in Cambodia after we left since the old guys were deposed and their deeds revealed. The same very bad SOB's are in charge of Vietnam, so old lefties can still believe that the Communists were freedom fighters. Laos and Cambodia were poor countries, who went very bad when the Communists took over.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We fought the Vietnam War in part for freedom and safety for the citizens of South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Unfortunately we did not prevail. You ought to visit Southeast Asia some time. See how nice the communist regimes are to their own people. See the Killing Fields memorials. See the locals get checked and frisked every mile or two by the ever present and huge military. Then visit Taiwan or Korea or Malaysia or some other similar but free place. A vast difference.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Iraq 1 & 2. First one was to throw the aggressor Saddam out of Kuwait. Mostly our kids wars. We succeeded, with extensive international support – even the French, making Kuwait free and safe.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Second one was to get Saddam out, and free the Iraqi people. No help from the UN or France or Germany or Russia on this one. They oppose the war for moral concerns, arguing that Saddam was bad, but after all he only invaded other countries and gassed people and murdered people because he was misunderstood. Perhaps the 22 billion oil for food scandal had just a little to do with their moral stance.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The world is a better place without Saddam. He is right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Iraq is a long way from being a good place yet. The jury is still out on that one. I think that most of us hope that it will become a free and good country, although we may disagree on whether that is worth the</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">sacrifice.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I dislike war. It is to be avoided where possible. They are extremely</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">divisive, very expensive, and tough on the kids who fight the wars and their families.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sometimes they are necessary. And sometimes they accomplish good things, like the freedom and safety for western Europe after WW II, free and safe Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia. And sometimes they do not work out - Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, China, Tibet.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Of course, many people think my analysis is wrong. They think the wars were for oil, or so the defense industry could sell weapons, or because we love war, are neocolonialists, fascists, war mongers, thieves. No doubt some limited truth to some of that.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One point I would make is that the pointed end of the military spear are the 18 to 25 year olds. They do most of the fighting and dying. Most are not very political. They are now our kids. Mostly they have not even voted yet. They join the military for a variety of reasons, including a desire to serve their country, keep the country safe and free, prove themselves, be a hero, get money for college, get a job, learn a trade, etc. They are the best of our kids, willing to sacrifice themeselves for the good of their country. They are not the ones to blame if we get into a bad war.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">If we get into a bad war for bad motives, don’t blame them. Blame the voters.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Blame ourselves. Blame the Ruling Class and their tools.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">We are after all the ruling class in this country. We have been part of that ruling class since we became voters. And we elect the leaders and tools of the ruling class.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And we have made some mistakes.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Since we are the ruling class, and have made mistakes,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Virtual Reality Pushps for everyone.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Militant Middle Aged Moderate</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">__________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I DO in fact appreciate your missives, Craig, though of course I</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">didn't know whether you'd respond. Though I don't entirely agree</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">with your analysis, I'm gonna give you the last word because it's an</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">extremely thoughtful reply. There's plenty in it that I DO agree</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">with. Thank you.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">J.W.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'll jump in here now that Craig got the heavy lifting done in scholarly</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">fashion.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">It seems that you, Sue, are inferring we shouldn't be in Iraq, and I</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">disagree with that. The Muslim terrorists stuck their nose in our business to the tune of 3,000 lives in one day. And they have made it clear they we must either become enslaved to their way of thinking or they will kill us all (if they could). THAT's why we are in a war right now, and I don't understand why people can't grasp that.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">George Bush decided that the best way to fight terrorism was to go after</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">governments that sponsor/harbor terrorists. You can disagree with his</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">decision, but that is what is happening. The Taliban in Afghanistan was</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">first, Saddam Hussein was next, and I imagine that any other government</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">foolish enough to think they can pull that kind of crap might get their</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">asses handed to them.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bullies need to be stood up to or they will keep bullying. The terrorists</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">bully everyone in their country, so they think they can get away with it</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">world wide. George Bush has decided we the best approach is to stand up to them, fight them on their turf so they can't come over here and force you,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue, to wear a burkha or be stoned to death.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As an aside, when in the Army, my last job was in the Command Operations</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Center in Alaska, preparing war plans. I hated it. Absolutely the worst</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">job I ever had. But I did learn many interesting things about the strategy of defending our country. One was that the Atlantic and Pacific oceans were our best defense. They can keep the fighting from coming here, and that is part of W's strategy. Keep the fighting over there. I agree with that, too.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The War with the Terrorists? Let them reach their destiny?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dear Will...my Bush Admin. supporter friend,</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, I am opposed to this war in Iraq, but was not initially. It's helpful to have an Intelligence Agency uncovering THE TRUTH, especially during critical times...such as the one in which we currently find ourselves. You, I and the world is now well aware of the fact that Sadam H. had no concealed WMD's, nor was he a supporter of the Shiite extremists, nor an advocated of Bin Laden's terrorist network. For him to have supported these extremists, would have meant that he would have lost control (and we know he had control issues) of the very elements which supported his meglomania dictatorship. If there were 20 fanatic</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">extremists in Iraq during Sadam's rule Will and Craig, there are 100 times that now. So the premise that Sadam had WMD's and supported Islamic factions, is nothing more than a Grim's fairy fale guys. Sadam was a bad man and will not be missed, but then again, so are the Mullahs ruling Iran, the lobotomied ruler of N. Korea, the Saudi princes ruling S. Arabia, the current ruler of Syria, and possibly adding a new member to that LONG list is Mr. Putin in Russia (another discussion). We sleep in their beds, just as we had slept in Sadam's not so long ago. Establishing that these rulers are corrupted and tyrants, that does NOT give us the right to amass an army at their borders, invade and then occupy...under our terms. Bullying is applicable to them and US! History has shown that this country has stuck its noses into many areas it shouldn't have...and I'm not referring to WWI and WWII.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">With the 50's conflict in Korea, we could have very well armed, trained and supplied S. Korea with the means to defend itself from the aggressor. It was not necessary for us to have troops occupying their soil.....even to this day. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I won't even begin to address the tragic absurdity with our presence in Vietnam. Contrary to some people's thinking, might does not make right. It's one thing to take action in defending one's country, just as we had invading Afganistan. </span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Intelligence had proven that Osama was responsible for 9-11 and that he was training and hiding out in Afganistan. There were NO terrorist training camps in Iraq!!! A more logical approach would have been to look to Saudi Arabia as the safe harbor for all terrorists, what with Osama's influential and wealthy family residing there. But you and I know, that there are specific Texan and other Administration friends who play kissie face with many members of the Saudi family.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I will not support any war where the premise to fight and murder is founded on lies and half truths. We are not bringing these people our brand of freedom, but rather a bastardized generic version. That in and of itself is a criminal act. Shame on our elected officials and shame on us, for not holding our elected officials to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div align="right" class="MsoPlainText" style="text-align: right;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sue said "We are not bringing these people our brand of freedom, but rather a bastardized generic version."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Will replies. I think it's better than what they had. They have to learn</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">to walk before they run. And at least the US is setting up new regimes in a democratic fashion rather than installing dictators.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">You still don't address the issue of what you would do to defend yourself in the face of the muslim extremists goal of trying to rule or kill everyone, everywhere. Or will you turn the other cheek inside your burka?</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John wrote:</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">"It's hard for me to imagine that you actually believe that propaganda that you posted over on the other forum, though. Soldiers, like police officers, have always been primarily tools of the ruling class. I wish someone could cite me an example of a war, since World War II, where American soldiers were actually or fundamentally fighting for Freedom."</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Judy</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">That wasn't propaganda, JW, that was sentiment. Regardless of how soldiers, police officers, firemen, teachers, reporters or just about anyone else may be manipulated by "the powers" -- I ACTUALLY BELIEVE that most of them, particularly soldiers, ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are doing their job, which is guarding someone's freedom(s). For their good intentions, I thank them and pray for them and their families.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The war itself (which officially ended how many months ago?) disgusts me, and I am sick watching the news day after day. I can separate the two emotions, however, and I can feel both of them without having to know how my sentiment figures in the total scheme of history.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
</div></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Three of our Chicago Marine Reserves died in Iraq this week. A tragic loss.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">November 9, 2004</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">DOD Identifies Marine Casualties</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Department of Defense announced today the death of Marines who were</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Cpl. Nathaniel T. Hammond, 24, of Tulsa, Okla.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Lance Cpl. Shane K. O’Donnell, 24, of DeForest, Wisc.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Both Marines died Nov. 8 as a result of enemy action in Babil Province, Iraq. They were assigned to the Marine Corps Reserve’s 2nd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, Chicago, Ill.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Lance Cpl. Branden P. Ramey, 22, of Boone, Ill., died Nov. 8 as a result of enemy action in Babil Province, Iraq. He was assigned to the Marine Corps Reserve’s 2nd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, Chicago, Ill.</span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
_______________<br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;"></span><br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="wide" style="width: 1128px;"><tbody>
<tr><td class="msg content user first" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: white; background-image: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial; border-bottom-width: 0px !important; border-color: initial !important; border-left-width: 0px !important; border-right-width: 0px !important; border-style: initial !important; border-top-color: rgb(150, 182, 121); border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; font-family: Georgia; padding-bottom: 25px; padding-left: 15px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 25px; vertical-align: top;"><div class="msgarea entry-content" style="clear: both; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 4px; padding-right: 4px; padding-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">You Floridians and Californians better come back to Chicago before you are blown<br />
away or fall into the ocean. There is nothing to fear in Chicago except for the<br />
occasional blizzard, tornado, and drive by shooting.<br />
<br />
Considering Retiring to North Dakota - Well known bumper sticker in North<br />
Dakota:<br />
<br />
"Why we like weather 30 below zero? It keeps the riffraff out."<br />
<br />
</span></span></div><div class="msgarea entry-content" style="clear: both; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 4px; padding-right: 4px; padding-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
Hurricanes - I went through a hurricane in 1970 in Vietnam. It was downgraded to a tropical<br />
storm, but we were on Hill 327 in Vietnam. At 1,000 feet high near the coast, it<br />
was a hurricane.<br />
<br />
We sent most of the troops off the hill. Those that stayed hid in bunkers or a<br />
metal storage van (Conex Box). The storm built up, and of course we watched it<br />
through the open door of the van. It knocked down every building on the Hill,<br />
completely destroyed everything. Pieces of roof and buildings were flying<br />
through the air. A metal post was driven into a telephone pole. The roof of the<br />
building that our van was attached to blew off in one huge piece, and sailed<br />
off, never to be seen again.<br />
<br />
We were young, stupid and invulnerable, and thought it was great fun. All of our<br />
personal items were soaked or blown away, but we had few items of value.<br />
<br />
In the eye of the storm it became very still, with a very weird yellowish color<br />
and clammy feel to the air. Then the storm built up again, and we had to take<br />
cover in our metal van. Our van road through the storm without a problem -<br />
served as an excellent shelter.</span></span></div></td></tr>
</tbody></table><br />
</div><br />
</div></span></span><br />
</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-57372761004966194272010-01-08T17:34:00.000-08:002010-01-24T12:24:38.278-08:00War Crimes<div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John W</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I'd also like to know why an individual should be held accountable for, say, murder, and someone like Hitler should be held accountable, but leaders of so-called democracies should NOT be held equally accountable for ordering the premature termination of human life, and our beloved Marines, who are after all only "following orders" like their "enemy" counterparts, should not be held similarly accountable.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I think we all can agree that anyone who commits a crime should be given a fair trial and punished if guilty. Having participated in numerous investigations, court martials, and office hours, I can assure you that the military and the Marine Corps punish people for crimes.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">So we are a long way from perfect. And we need always to try harder. And when some of our people screw up and commit crimes, we need to punish them, apologize and move on. But we also must not beat ourselves up when a few people embarrass us with crimes.</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_______________</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">John</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">This sounds reasonable. If you, Craig, and the rest of our classmates will go on record as being willing and ready to do all within your power - and I do mean ALL - to depose and punish this current crop of deathmongers and war profiteers - Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Ashcroft, Rice, etc., as well as corporate criminals like Kenneth Lay and his ilk - then I'll shut up and quit beating up on myself and our beloved nation.</span></span><br />
</div></div></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">_____________</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The two Marine Reserve units in Chicago were activated this week, and will be departing for Iraq shortly. The units activated include 2nd Battalion 24th Marines located on the west side of Chicago, and Marine Wing Communications Squadron 48 in Great Lakes, Illinois.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MWCS-48 was in the war last year, and is going again. I was a member of both of these units and know a number of the Marines. Most of the men and women are 18 to 21.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The memorial service below was held in Iraq by one of the unit they will be supporting. Most of the people killed would have been 18 to 21.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">31 May 2004. Memorial Day.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">RCT-7 Memorial Day Service</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Remarks by Commanding Officer, Regimental Combat Team-7: "Americans across the globe pause today to remember and honor our nation's war dead. Back home, in cities, county parks, farming towns, and backyards amidst parades, picnics and speeches our country remembers millions. We gather here today, in a dusty courtyard on an airbase in Iraq, to remember 23.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Many have told me over these last few days that this short talk should reverberate with words linking those we remember today to great causes and purposes. I do not have those kinds of words in me today. I don't need them.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The truth has nobility enough. Our families and friends assemble today at their picnics and parades free of fear and terror. They assemble as the normal commerce of life in the U.S. proceeds apace, their children safe from the terror that stalks this globe. That sense of security and freedom from fear does not, however, make this enemy any less dangerous or any less real. This is a war against terror, fighting an enemy whose strategy is to focus his death and destruction on our families, our neighbors, and our citizens; an enemy whose tactics are designed to instill fear by killing our children in their homes as we stand helplessly by. That horror has moved away from our shores because men like you, and those men we remember today, are willing to endure the sacrifices required to engage this enemy here. Each man we honor today paid the ultimate sacrifice, and when that moment of sacrifice alighted upon each Marine's personal battlefield, his feet stood fast, he stood to his duty, and he honored the loyalty of his friends and his fellow Marines. They were worthy of their country, of their forefathers, and of their buddies. We can pay them no greater honor than to paint each of them into our memory and to promise, each in our own way and each to our own thoughts, that we will never forget them. And for as long as any here live, their memorial day will not be the last Monday in May; their memorial is their lives sculpted into the hearts of their friends, a memorial enduring for the generations all of you have left to live, a memorial that comes to life when we speak of them, laugh over their antics, cry over them, talk to our family and friends about them, or sit quietly and feel the pain of their loss to our fellowship.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">As for me, I knew few of them personally, but I remember all of their names; I remember the hour and date of their death, I remember how and where they died, I know the names of those they left behind. And for the remainder of my days their memorial will be that remembering: that these young men I counted as my sons have far exceeded the honors of their fathers. "</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In Memoriam</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL ARIC J. BARR</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2ND Bn, 7TH Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Hit, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 3 March 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">PFC RICKY A. MORRIS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 17 March 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">PFC BRANDON C. SMITH</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 March 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL DAVID M. VICENTE</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2ND Bn, 7TH Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Hit, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 19 March 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">PFC DUSTIN M. SEKULA</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">2ND Bn, 7TH Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Al Anbar Province, Iraq On 1 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL CHRISTOPHER B. WASSER</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 8 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL NICHOLAS J. DIERUF</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1st LAR Bn</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Al Bu Jardin, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 8 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL ELIAS TORREZ III</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Sa'dah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 9 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL DANIEL R. AMAYA</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3RD Bn, 4th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Fallujah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 11 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL TORREY L. GRAY</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3RD Bn, 4th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Fallujah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 11 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1STLT OSCAR JIMENEZ</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3RD Bn, 4th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Fallujah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 11 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL JASON L. DUNHAM</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 14 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CAPT RICHARD J. GANNON II</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL CHRISTOPHER A. GIBSON</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL MICHAEL J. SMITH JR</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 April</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL RUBEN VALDEZ JR</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 April</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL GARY F. VANLEUVAN</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">3rd Bn, 7th Marines</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Husaybah, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 18 April 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL BOB W. ROBERTS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">C Co, 1st CEB</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Al Asad, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 17 May 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL RUDY SALAS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1st LAR Bn</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received on MSR Tin, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 20 May 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">SSGT JORGE A. MOLINABAUTISTA</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1st LAR Bn</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Al Anbar Province, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 23 May 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">CPL MATTHEW C. HENDERSON</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">C Co, 1st CEB</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Hit, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 26 May 2004 </span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LCPL KYLE W. CODNER</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">C Co, 1st CEB</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Died as a result of wounds received in Hit, Iraq</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On 26 May 2004</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Share Your Courage Ancient History Sourcebook: Thucydides (c.460/455-c.399 BCE): Pericles' Funeral Oration from the Peloponnesian War (Book 2.34-46)</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Note I received today from a friend in Iraq. He is our age, Vietnam Vet, still flying helicopters. His Commanding Officer was Tammy Duckworth, the woman who lost both her legs in a Helo crash.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig,</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I received a care package from Mayor Ed Zabrocki of Tinely Park which is most appreciated by the Men and Woman of Co B 1st/106th Aviation. Temps are exceeding 110 degrees with high winds. Its just like sitting in front of a hair dryer.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Dave</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">________________</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-41186717133720204302010-01-08T17:28:00.000-08:002010-01-26T02:55:47.738-08:00World War II Utah Beach - Memorial Dedication<div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="MsoNormal" style="border: none; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Marie</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border: none; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">a number of years ago our family took a trip through France and spent a day </span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">at Utah Beach in Normandy..</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border: none; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I experienced a rather bizarre feeling - seeing the German tank grounded in the sand with children climbing over it and tourists posing in front of it for pictures...</span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border: none; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="border: none; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">There were rolls of barbed wire in the sand dunes but over the dunes people </span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">were lounging under rainbow-striped beach umbrellas...the water was at </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">low-tide without a ripple ....it was an idyllic late summer afternoon - </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">and yet those iron relics were an eery anachronistic reminder of some event </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">from the "twilight zone" ..I tried to imagine the fog, the belting rain, the </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">waves, the boats and myriad of bodies storming the dunes...the machine guns </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">firing....and I couldn't fathom the reality of such atrocious chaos standing </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">amid such peaceful beauty. </span></span></span><br />
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</div></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fJcM2kx3I/AAAAAAAABmk/yEHvBlyMNbs/s1600-h/natww2memorial-706854.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1fJcM2kx3I/AAAAAAAABmk/yEHvBlyMNbs/s400/natww2memorial-706854.jpg" width="272" /></span></span></a><br />
</div><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">My parents and I went to the WW II Memorial dedication in DC this weekend.</span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The Memorial is for all the "Greatest Generation", those who served in the </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">military and the home front who supported them from 1941-45. Our parents and </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">gradparents generation. Fun meeting the veterans who stopped the Nazi's, </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">fascists, and imperialists, and liberated big parts of Europe and Asia.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And interesting to see how many baby boomers who were there, with and without a </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">parent. Those without were ususally honoring their parents. Lots of people </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">walking up to WWII veterans, and thanking them for their service.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The memorial is great and grand, beautifully located between the Washington and </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Lincoln Monument. The architectural criticism is wrong - this is a great </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">monument. And it is a monument to an entire group of Americans - the 144,000,000 </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Americans who fought or supported the war. Much more democratic and appropriate </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">than most of our monuments, erected for a single person.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Only about 1/4 of the vets are still alive 4,000,000 left out of 16,000,000.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The monument is very different than the Vietnam memorial. It is larger, more </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">grand, more celebratory, which it should be. It was a much bigger and more </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">celebratory War. WWII was also a unique time, when the country was united, as </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">opposed to most times, like Vietnam, the present, the Civil War, the </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Revolutionary War. But the Vietnam memorial is still very powerful and positive.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The Web Site for my fathers World War II Unit</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">http://109thengineers34thdivision.blogspot.com/</span></span></span><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">My fathers comments below:</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">The dedication ceremony was fantistic but long. Even though the weather was </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">perfect, we got sunburn and sore muscles. We arraived at DC in the middle of the </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">afternoon on Friday and tried to get a a look at the memorial but the traffic </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">and and crowds held us to just a glimpse (and the camera was in the car!!) We </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">went back early Sat. and our seats were at the east end of the mall fairly close </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">to the Capital building and about a mile from the memorial. We left Louise to </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">hold our seats and Craig and I decided to walk to the memorial for pictures but </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">when we got there it was closed off to people. Probably a good thing.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">If 150,000 all tried to do the same thing, it would have been chaos. But my </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">walking legs haven't recovered yet.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">They had lots of huge TV screens in all the seating areas so we could hear and </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">see all the activities very well. Actually they started music and acts about </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">10:00 AM , had the stuff you may have seen at 12:00 to 2:00, and then went right </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">on with other stuff for the outlying crowds.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig had got us reservations in the Fort Belvoir BOQ which turned out to be </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">real nice. But they had lots of security people out checking on credentials. We </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">had ID and drivers licenses but they wanted proof that we owned the car. Our</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">insurance cards didn't seem to help although why we would have been paying </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">insurance on a terrorist car escapes me. Anyhow they wouldn't let us in. Craig </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">asked what would they do if we had flown in and rented a car which is what most </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">people might do. They said we would then a contract from the car rental company </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">which would show proof of ownership. So, after appealing to all the authorities </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">including trying to get confirmation on our car from Chicago (the coputers were </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">down!!!), we went out and rented a beat up old SUV, parked our car in his lot </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">for two days, and were admitted with no trouble.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">What they didn't know was that the hole in the wall company we rented the car </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">from was run by a Syrian emigrant and neither they or we bothered to check his </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">credentials or foreign allegiances!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I should point out at I was discarged from Ft.Belvoir in 1945 and no one seemed </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">to recognize me either. So much for the Army. I should also admit that Craig </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">stopped in to Marine Base at Quantico to show us around and they just saluted </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">him and waved him in in our suspect car. Maybe the Marines are better???</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</span></span> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">After we got our car back on Sunday morning, we drove back to DC to get some </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">pictures of the memorial. But even at 8AM the crowds were big and my pictures </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">will have lots of strangers in them.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Charles V</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig- That was so neat that you took your parents to see the new WW II </span></span></span><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Memorial. The Memorial has certainly been long overdue considering what that </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">generation did for our country and the civilized world. They say that there are </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">1100 WW II veterans dying a day. Here in St. Louis we have Jefferson Barracks </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">National Cemetary and it has over 152,000 persons buried there from the civil </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">war to the present. It takes your breath away to go there as it did Arlington </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">National Cemetary in Washington, D.C.. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span><br />
</div><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Did you know Arlington use to be the </span></span></span><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">plantation of Robert E. Lee? During the Civil War some Northern General took it </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">over and made it a cemetary for Union soldiers to be a slap in the face for Lee </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">supporting the South. If anyone has never been to our nations capital they </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">should really go. There is so much history there and things to see and do. We </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">stayed in Manassas, Virginia and rode the light rail into D.C. every day and</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">came up from the station in front of the Smithsonian each </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">day. We were in D.C. the fall of 2000. Both the Korean and Viet Nam Memorials </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">are very special. One of the neatest places was Ford's Theater where Lincoln w</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">as shot. They have a teriffic museum in the basement of the theater. Charlie</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig - This was written by a Marine friend of mine.</span></span><br />
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</span></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J0St6jQI/AAAAAAAABoM/tAyFqy3ehLM/s1600-h/Anderson+Head.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="275" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J0St6jQI/AAAAAAAABoM/tAyFqy3ehLM/s320/Anderson+Head.JPG" width="320" /></a><br />
</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Very nicely written and done, Ron. I am sure your<br />
daughter will remember your efforts on placing the<br />
flags at the Punch Bowl WW II Cemetary.<br />
<br />
My Great Uncle Walter Anderson, who was killed at<br />
Kwajalein in WW II, is buried at the Punch Bowl in Hawaii.<br />
<br />
So on behalf of him and our family, we thank you.<br />
<br />
<br />
Semper Fi<br />
<br />
Craig Hullinger<br />
_________________<br />
<br />
2 Jun 2004 Ron W wrote:<br />
<br />
Memorial Day and a Very Important PS<br />
<br />
Early Monday morning I gave a concerned look at Katie<br />
and wondered why she was not ready for school yet. I<br />
knew she had off, but wanted to jack her chain a bit.<br />
She did not fall for it, and looking at me with that<br />
"child knowing everything and parent knowing nothing<br />
look," she promptly told me it was Memorial Day, and<br />
she had no school.<br />
<br />
I was surprised she even knew it was Memorial Day, but<br />
then asked her what that meant. Well, she didn't know,<br />
so then I told her how after the American Civil War,<br />
Southern women saw that many Confederate and Union<br />
soldiers who were killed in the fighting, did not have<br />
marked graves. They felt sorry for them, so far from<br />
home, and no one to properly take care of their grave,<br />
let alone mark it. It started as a tradition and spread<br />
till eventually it caught on across the nation, It was<br />
originally called Decoration Day, and finally the<br />
President of the United States declared the last Monday<br />
of May as Memorial Day. I told her about Punchbowl and<br />
how I saw on the news that the Boy Scouts were out<br />
there placing an American Flag at each Veterans'<br />
grave. One Boy Scout who was interviewed, placed 200<br />
flags himself, and in all 35,000 small American Flags<br />
were put in the ground next to each grave marker. She<br />
expressed an interest to visit it, even though she<br />
initially said , "Dead people are bad and scary, and<br />
would not want to see all the decaying bodies." I<br />
explained that they were not bad people, and asked if<br />
she thought her Grandparents, who she loved so much<br />
were bad people. She really did not mean "bad" as being<br />
terrible mean people. I told her the Veterans were<br />
buried under the ground and covered with nice grass,<br />
and the cemetery had lots of trees, bushes, and<br />
flowers. I asked her if she was ever at a cemetery, and<br />
she replied, "No." She actually had, but did not<br />
remember being at the cemetery when her Grandparents<br />
died.<br />
<br />
So, we headed out on the Windward coastal ride, took<br />
our time, and visited, the Federal VA Cemetery of the<br />
Pacific, Punchbowl. There were thousands of<br />
American Flags, all in neat rows, up and down the<br />
slopes of the dormant volcano overlooking<br />
Honolulu...quite a sight. As we drove down one lane I<br />
noticed an American Flag that had blown over, stopped<br />
the jeep, got out, and up righted it, got back in and<br />
continued on. Then we saw there were more fallen over,<br />
I stopped again, and eventually Linda and Katie joined<br />
me in up righting more flags, and flower pots, that had<br />
blown over. I was real proud of both of them.<br />
<br />
We visited the immense monument depicting the Battle of<br />
the Pacific, and let Katie go at her own pace, asking<br />
questions and wanting to "touch" the mosaic maps of the<br />
different campaigns and battles. I think she wanted to<br />
touch them just because they were fenced off.<br />
<br />
Anyway we got back home about 1800, had Mahi Mahi on<br />
the grill and ate outside with the tiki torches<br />
going...really nice and relaxing.<br />
<br />
Semper Fi,<br />
and God Bless America!!!<br />
<br />
<br />
Love,<br />
Dad/Grandpa/Ron/Woz<br />
<br />
______________</span></span></span></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J8OPsocI/AAAAAAAABoU/xQAc8a3vBuA/s1600-h/Anderson+-+Metals+(4).jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="402" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J8OPsocI/AAAAAAAABoU/xQAc8a3vBuA/s640/Anderson+-+Metals+(4).jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
Craig - Letters about my Great Uncle<br />
<br />
<br />
COMPANY G 184th INFANTRY<br />
APO 7, c /O Postmaster<br />
San Francisco, California<br />
<br />
<br />
20 February 1944<br />
<br />
Mr. & Mrs. Peter. Anderson<br />
Murdo, South Dakota<br />
<br />
<br />
Dear Mr. & Mrs. P. Anderson:<br />
<br />
Words are inadequate in trying to express the feelings<br />
of the officers and men of this organization over the<br />
death of your son, Walter Anderson.<br />
<br />
Early in this training phase Walter was singled out as<br />
an outstanding noncommissioned officer, and was<br />
assigned the duties of Platton Sgt. over numerous<br />
senior Sgts. Such an assignment meant that Walter was<br />
second in command of thirty-eight men. While serving in<br />
such a capacity the men in his platoon soon realized<br />
and appreciated his fine qualities, namely, fairness,<br />
coolness, and a great deal of common sense.<br />
<br />
During the operation S/Sgt. Anderson became platoon<br />
commander, again in which capacity he skillfully led<br />
his men. For above action I have recommended that<br />
S/Sgt. Anderson be awarded the Bronze Star. Walter was<br />
struck by rifle fire and died shortly afterward.<br />
<br />
Please feel free to call upon me for additional<br />
information you may desire.<br />
<br />
Military restrictions are such that any information you<br />
may desire concerning grave locations, dispostiions of<br />
remains, effects, and other related matters will be<br />
furnished by the Quartermaster General.<br />
<br />
You have the deepest sympathy of the men and officers<br />
of this organization in your bereavement.<br />
<br />
Yours most sincerely<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
RENE E. MAYSONAVE<br />
Capt. Infantry<br />
Commanding</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J8OPsocI/AAAAAAAABoU/xQAc8a3vBuA/s1600-h/Anderson+-+Metals+(4).jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="402" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17J8OPsocI/AAAAAAAABoU/xQAc8a3vBuA/s640/Anderson+-+Metals+(4).jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 18px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
________________<br />
<br />
Murdo, S. D<br />
<br />
December 20, 1991<br />
<br />
Dear Craig:<br />
<br />
Walt graduated from Murdo High School in 1936, during<br />
the worst of the big depression. It was next to<br />
impossible to get a job but he worked for Edna<br />
and Helmer Liffengren most of the time until 1940.<br />
<br />
He was one of the first volunteers for service and left<br />
from Murdo in January 1941. Basic Training in Camp<br />
Roberts in California, later in Fort Ord, CA. His<br />
outfits stormed ashore on an island in the Aleutions,<br />
Alaska sometime before 1943, but the Japanese had all<br />
left so they went on to Hawaii. Walt was a very good<br />
all around athlete so he was picked to take Ranger<br />
training while there. A very tough course, so they say.<br />
<br />
The Navy had shelled the small island of Kwajelein,<br />
about a mile wide and two deep for days until not a<br />
tree was standing but when the infantry went in there<br />
were still enemy in underground bunkers who came out<br />
and shot 3 or 4 hundred of our men. Walt was one of<br />
them, on February 4, 1944. His body was buried nearby<br />
until the war was over. With the parents request, he<br />
is buried in the National Cemetery in Hawaii, the very<br />
beautiful Punch Bowl. We were there in 1974.<br />
<br />
Paul Anderson (Brother of Walter Anderson,<br />
Uncle to Louise Liffengren Hullinger</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">______________</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17KIUO-VII/AAAAAAAABoc/mVtBVKFGbkM/s1600-h/Anderson+-+Metals+(3).jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S17KIUO-VII/AAAAAAAABoc/mVtBVKFGbkM/s320/Anderson+-+Metals+(3).jpg" /></a><br />
</div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">My Uncle received the Bronze Star 50 years after he earned it. My cousin knew the story that the award had been recommended, but lost in the shuffle. He wrote to his Congressman. They found the citation, and awarded it to the family.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">More on my uncle below:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://sgtwalteranderson.blogspot.com/">http://sgtwalteranderson.blogspot.com/</a></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-8239044318130607002010-01-08T17:18:00.000-08:002010-01-24T11:53:43.568-08:00Morgan Park Alums on the Vietnam Memorial Wall<div style="text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1I_Tz5UzSI/AAAAAAAABh4/7z4eBi-9z-g/s1600-h/vietnam-memorial-wall-picture+4.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1I_Tz5UzSI/AAAAAAAABh4/7z4eBi-9z-g/s640/vietnam-memorial-wall-picture+4.jpg" /></a><br />
</div><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><br />
</span></span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: x-large;">Morgan Park Alumni </span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1962-1968 </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">on the Vietnam Memorial Wall</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our thanks to all of our fallen High School Comrades</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Jim Beck</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Larry Dart</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ricky Greene</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sgt Holstein</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Bruce Huff</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Al McNabb</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Mills Miller</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Warren Muhr</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Robert Nawrocki</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">William Newbold</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">William Lee Owen Jr</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">And thanks to all the ones we don't know about:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1I_vXOh2-I/AAAAAAAABiI/khgvi1XTYWA/s1600-h/vietnam_memorial+6.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ntp-8Tf4oso/S1I_vXOh2-I/AAAAAAAABiI/khgvi1XTYWA/s640/vietnam_memorial+6.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
</div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">____________________________ </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">RICHARD JAMES BECK JR is honored on Panel 60E, Row 8 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: RICHARD J BECK JR </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 5/19/1947 Date of Casualty: 5/14/1968 </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL Branch of Service: ARMY</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rank: SP4 Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: HUA NGHIA </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=3164">http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=3164</a></span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Richard James Beck<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Private First Class<br />
C CO, 1ST BN, 508TH INFANTRY, 82ND ABN DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatpa.htm#pittsburgh">Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania</a><br />
December 16, 1945 to August 04, 1968<br />
RICHARD J BECK is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan49w.htm#L000">Panel 49W Line 007</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/db/BeckRJ01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Richard Beck<br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Richard James Beck Jr<br />
Specialist Four<br />
</div><pre>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: Chicago, IL
Date of birth: 05/19/1947
MILITARY DATA
Service: Army of the United States
Grade at loss: E4
Rank: Specialist Four
ID No: 54819744
MOS: 11B20: Infantryman
Length Service: 01
Unit: B CO, 3RD BN, 22ND INFANTRY, 25TH INF DIV, USARV
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: 01/13/1968
Casualty Date: 05/14/1968
Incident Date: 05/14/1968
Age at Loss: 20
Location: Hau Nghia Province, South Vietnam
Remains: Body recovered
Casualty Type: Hostile, died outright
Casualty Reason: Ground casualty
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">LAWRENCE MICHAEL DART is honored on Panel 16W, Row 42 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: LAWRENCE M DART </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 5/26/1945 Date of Casualty: 11/7/1969</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: DES MOINES State: IA</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: SP4</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: HUA NGHIA</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><h1>Lawrence Michael Dart</h1>Specialist Four<br />
C CO, 65TH ENGINEERS, 25 INF DIV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
26 May 1945 - 07 November 1969<br />
Des Moines, Iowa<br />
Panel 16W Line 042 <br clear="all" /><a href="http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=6735221482860261482&postID=823904431813060700" name="decs"></a><br />
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<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dd/DartLM01b.htm" onclick="wopen1()" target="win1">The database page for Lawrence Michael Dart</a><br />
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<span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica;"><b><center>09 Aug 2007<br />
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</div><div style="text-align: left;">My brother, Larry Dart, was a great guy and my best friend. We grew up on the southwest side of Chicago in the neighborhood of Mount Greenwood. Larry and I loved music and he was involved in it all his life. He was also a sports fan who was an excellent baseball player. He played first base at Morgan Park High School. He was a very good student, and a 1967 graduate of Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. He was attending Drake Law School when he was drafted. He enlisted hoping to get a better job than infantry. He got Combat Engineer. While in-country he was very popular with his fellow soldiers and worked hard at his job. Two weeks before he was mortally wounded he won the Silver Star for rescuing several men from a ATC that hit a mine and burned. He was injured while clearing a road of a barrel that was booby trapped. He died a week later at Long Bien Hospital.<br />
</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br />
</div><div style="text-align: left;">He left behind a beautiful wife, Bette Gae, and many friends. I was his only brother and I miss him more every year. Because every year my children and grand children grow older and more wonderful and I wish they could have been blessed by the company of their Uncle Larry. I do what I can to keep his memory alive in them.<br />
</div>From his brother,<br />
Jim Dart<br />
<a href="mailto:jadart@verizon.net?subject=Via%20The%20Virtual%20Wall%20memorial%20for%20Lawrence%20Dart">jadart@verizon.net<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><b>The point-of-contact for this memorial is<br />
his brother,<br />
Jim Dart<br />
<a href="mailto:jadart@verizon.net?subject=Via%20Lawrence%20Dart's%20Memorial%20on%20www.VirtualWall.org">jadart@verizon.net<br />
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www.VirtualWall.org</a>Back to<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dd/0d.htm">To alpha index D</a><br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatia.htm">IA State Index</a> . <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan16w.htm">Panel 16W</a><br />
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<h2>Lawrence Michael Dart<br />
Specialist Four</h2><span style="font-family: fixedsys; font-size: small;"><pre>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: Des Moines, Iowa
Date of birth: Saturday, 05/26/1945
MILITARY DATA
Service: Army (Regular)
Grade at loss: E4
Rank: Specialist Four
ID No: 321402753
MOS: 12B20 Combat Engineer
LenSvc: Less than one year
Unit: C CO, 65TH ENGINEERS, 25 INF DIV
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: Friday, 06/06/1969
Cas Date: Friday, 11/07/1969
Age at Loss: 24
Remains: Body recovered
Location: Hau Nghia, South Vietnam
Type: Hostile, died of wounds
Reason: Other explosive device - Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 16W Line 042</pre></span> <br />
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<hr width="75%" /></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><b>With all respect<br />
Jim Schueckler, former CW2, US Army<br />
Ken Davis, Commander, United States Navy (Ret)<br />
Memorial first published on 09 Aug 2007<br />
Last updated 08/20/2007</b></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">RICHARD HENRY GREENE is honored on Panel 38W, Row 11 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: RICHARD H GREENE </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 3/18/1948 Date of Casualty: 11/19/1968</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL Branch of Service: MARINE CORPS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rank: CPL Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Province: QUANG TRI</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Richard Henry Greene<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Corporal<br />
G CO, 2ND BN, 4TH MARINES, 3RD MARDIV, III MAF<br />
United States Marine Corps<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
March 18, 1948 to November 19, 1968<br />
RICHARD H GREENE is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan38w.htm#L010">Panel 38W Line 011</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dg/GreeneRH02a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Richard Greene<br />
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</div><div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Richard Henry Greene<br />
Corporal<br />
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Home of Record: Chicago, IL
Date of birth: 03/18/1948
MILITARY DATA
Service: United States Marine Corps
Grade at loss: E4
Rank: Corporal
ID No: 2359644
MOS: 0311: RIFLEMAN
Length Service: 01
Unit: G CO, 2ND BN, 4TH MARINES, 3RD MARDIV, III MAF
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: 11/22/1967
Casualty Date: 11/19/1968
Age at Loss: 20
Location: Quang Tri Province, South Vietnam
Remains: Body recovered
Casualty Type: Non-hostile, died of illness or injury
Casualty Reason: Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 38W Line 011
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">JOHN L HOLSTEIN is honored on Panel 13E, Row 98 ofthe Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: JOHN L HOLSTEIN </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 7/10/1930 Date of Casualty: 12/29/1966</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: SAN BRUNO State: CA</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: PSGT</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: PR & MR UNKNOWN</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Sgt Holstein was an ROTC Instructor at Morgan Park High School</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">John L. Holstein<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Platoon Sergeant<br />
C CO, 2ND BN, 12TH CAVALRY, 1ST CAV DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatca.htm#sanbruno">San Bruno, California</a><br />
July 10, 1930 to December 29, 1966<br />
JOHN L HOLSTEIN is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan13e.htm#L090">Panel 13E Line 098</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dh/HolsteinJL01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for John Holstein<br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">John L Holstein<br />
Platoon Sergeant<br />
</div><pre>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: San Bruno, CA
Date of birth: 07/10/1930
MILITARY DATA
Service: Army of the United States
Grade at loss: E7
Rank: Platoon Sergeant
ID No: 19295829
MOS: 11B40: Infantryman
Length Service: 18
Unit: C CO, 2ND BN, 12TH CAVALRY, 1ST CAV DIV, USARV
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: 08/18/1966
Casualty Date: 12/29/1966
Incident Date: 12/29/1966
Age at Loss: 36
Location: Province not reported, South Vietnam
Remains: Body recovered
Casualty Type: Hostile, died outright
Casualty Reason: Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 13E Line 098
</pre><div class="title2" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">THE VIRTUAL WALL ® www.VIRTUALWALL.org<br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">BRUCE NORMAN HUFF is honored on Panel 56E, Row 9 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: BRUCE N HUFF </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 2/20/1944 Date of Casualty: 5/6/1968</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: 1LT</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: THUA THIEN</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Bruce Norman Huff<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">First Lieutenant<br />
A CO, 1ST BN, 12TH CAVALRY, 1ST CAV DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
February 20, 1944 to May 06, 1968<br />
BRUCE N HUFF is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan56e.htm#L000">Panel 56E Line 009</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dh/HuffBN01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Bruce Huff<br />
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<img alt="12cavrgt2.gif" border="0" height="100" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/u-pics/12cavrgt2.gif" title="12TH CAVALRY" vspace="10" width="100" />"<br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Bruce Norman Huff<br />
First Lieutenant<br />
</div><pre>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: Chicago, IL
Date of birth: 02/20/1944
MILITARY DATA
Service: Army of the United States
Grade at loss: O2
Rank: First Lieutenant
ID No: O5247925
MOS: 1203: Tank Unit Commander
Length Service: 02
Unit: A CO, 1ST BN, 12TH CAVALRY, 1ST CAV DIV, USARV
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: 04/19/1968
Casualty Date: 05/06/1968
Incident Date: 05/06/1968
Age at Loss: 24
Location: Thua Thien Province, South Vietnam
Remains: Body recovered
Casualty Type: Hostile, died outright
Casualty Reason: Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 56E Line 009
</pre><div class="title2" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">THE VIRTUAL WALL ® www.VIRTUALWALL.org<br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">ALFRED LEE MCNABB is honored on Panel 36E, Row 80 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: ALFRED L MCNABB</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 12/19/1948 Date of Casualty: 2/2/1968</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL Branch of Service: MARINE CORPS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rank: PFC Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: QUANG TRI</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Alfred Lee Mc Nabb<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Private First Class<br />
3RD PLT, H CO, 2ND BN, 9TH MARINES, 3RD MARDIV, III MAF<br />
United States Marine Corps<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
December 19, 1948 to February 02, 1968<br />
ALFRED L Mc NABB is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan36e.htm#L080">Panel 36E Line 080</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dm/McnabbAL01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Alfred Mc Nabb<br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="title1">Alfred Lee Mc Nabb<br />
Private First Class<br />
</div><pre><script type="text/javascript">
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</script>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: Chicago, IL
Date of birth: 12/19/1948
MILITARY DATA
Service: United States Marine Corps
Grade at loss: E2
Rank: Private First Class
ID No: 2359701
MOS: 0311: RIFLEMAN
Length Service: 00
Unit: 3RD PLT, H CO, 2ND BN, 9TH MARINES, 3RD MARDIV, III MAF
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: 12/17/1967
Casualty Date: 02/02/1968
Incident Date: 02/02/1968
Age at Loss: 19
Location: Quang Tri Province, South Vietnam
Remains: Body recovered
Casualty Type: Hostile, died outright
Casualty Reason: Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 36E Line 080
</pre><div class="title2"><script type="text/javascript">
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">MILLS CRAFT MILLER is honored on Panel 16E, Row 94 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: MILLS C MILLER </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 12/5/1946 Date of Casualty: 3/16/1967</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: TOLEDO State: OH Branch of Service: MARINE CORPS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rank: LCPL Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: QUANG NGAI</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=3412">http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=3412</a>0</span></span><br />
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<h1>Mills Craft Miller</h1></b></span><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica; font-size: small;"><b>Lance Corporal<br />
M CO, 3RD BN, 7TH MARINES, 1ST MARDIV<br />
United States Marine Corps<br />
05 December 1946 - 16 March 1967<br />
Toledo, Ohio<br />
Panel 16E Line 094</b></span><br />
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<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dm/MillerMC01b.htm" onclick="wopen1()" target="win1">The database page for Mills Craft Miller</a><br />
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<span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica;"><b><center>7 Jul 2001Mills,<br />
You will always live through the people<br />
who knew you and loved you.<br />
A memorial from his brother,<br />
Monty Miller<br />
<a href="mailto:montgilder@bellsouth.net?subject=Via%20Mills%20Miller's%20Memorial%20on%20www.VirtualWall.org">montgilder@bellsouth.net<br />
</a><br />
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<span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica;"><b><center>27 May 2003<br />
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<div align="left">To my brothers in arms, and especially my friends <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dk/KelleyJF01a.htm">HN Joe F. Kelley </a>, <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/db/BroadWR01a.htm">HM3 William Broad </a>, and <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dr/RatliffBJ01a.htm">Cpl Bobbie Ratliff </a>. I think of you all even though it has been 38 years. I remember seeing Joe and Bill in body bags on that fateful day on Operation DeSoto, my heart went numb and has been so since that day. Only the death of Mills Miller created a greater void in my life. I was in the Philippines when I read of the death of Bobbie, and again I wondered why I made it out alive. I wish you all were here with me, to laugh and retell the stories of by-gone days. I will join you someday, keep a rubber lady on a cot for me...<br />
</div>Doc Riddle<br />
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14 Mar 2004<br />
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<div align="left">Here it is another year on the 16th. I shall remember you forever and that day holds a special meaning to me. I spoke to JJ last week, he kept your dog tag, which he returned to your family. Just ambling ... Miss you. Doc<br />
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30 May 2005<br />
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<div align="left">Memorial Day, 2005, and I still have you in my heart. I wish I could have saved you. Keep the gates open for me. I know you are probably a Gunny by now, so you can set the rules for the pearly gates.... Doc<br />
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17 Mar 2006<br />
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<div align="left">Mills, it has been 39 years since that day. I am in contact with Toni on occasion and with J on a regular basis. I am getting older and I look forward to the day when I can see you again... Doc<br />
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04 Jan 2008Mills is buried in<br />
Evergreen Cemetery<br />
3401 W 87th St<br />
Evergreen Park, IL 60805.<br />
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16 Mar 2008<br />
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<div align="left">Today, a long time ago, we were together. Keep me in mind for a longer time together in the future... Love you and miss you... Doc<br />
<br />
</div><hr width="25%" /><br />
"Doc" Alan Riddle<br />
Corpsman, Fleet Marine Force<br />
<a href="mailto:condoc@hctc.com?subject=Via%20The%20Virtual%20Wall%20memorial%20for%20Mills%20Miller">condoc@hctc.com<br />
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<hr width="75%" /><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><b>With all respect<br />
Jim Schueckler, former CW2, US Army<br />
Ken Davis, Commander, United States Navy (Ret)<br />
Memorial first published on 7 Jul 2001<br />
Last updated 08/10/2009</b></span><br />
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<h2>Mills Craft Miller<br />
Lance Corporal</h2><span style="font-family: fixedsys; font-size: small;"></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: fixedsys; font-size: small;"><pre>PERSONAL DATA
Home of Record: Toledo, Ohio
Date of birth: Thursday, 12/05/1946
MILITARY DATA
Service: Marine Corps (Regular)
Grade at loss: E3
Rank: Lance Corporal
ID No: 2262037
MOS: 0311 Rifleman
LenSvc: Less than one year
Unit: M CO, 3RD BN, 7TH MARINES, 1ST MARDIV
CASUALTY DATA
Start Tour: Not recorded
Cas Date: Thursday, 03/16/1967
Age at Loss: 20
Remains: Body recovered
Location: Quang Ngai, South Vietnam
Type: Hostile, died outright
Reason: Gun or small arms fire - Ground casualty
ON THE WALL Panel 16E Line 094
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">___________________________</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WARREN FRANCIS MUHR is honored on Panel 15E, Row 98 ofthe Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: WARREN FRANCIS MUHR </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 1/21/1946 Date of Casualty: 2/26/1967 </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: PFC</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: TAY NINH</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=35577">http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=35577</a></span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Warren Francis Muhr<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Private First Class<br />
B CO, 2ND BN, 12TH INFANTRY, 4TH INF DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
January 21, 1946 to February 26, 1967<br />
WARREN F MUHR is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan15e.htm#L090">Panel 15E Line 098</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dm/MuhrWF01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Warren Muhr<br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">ROBERT DENNIS NAWROCKI is honored on Panel 35E, Row 25 of the Vietnam Veterans </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: ROBERT DENNIS NAWROCKI</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Memorial Date of Birth: 3/30/1948 Date of Casualty: 1/24/1968</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL Branch of Service: MARINE CORPS</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Rank: PFC Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: QUANG TRI </span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Robert Dennis Nawrocki<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Private First Class<br />
H&S CO, 1ST BN, 4TH MARINES, 3RD MARDIV, III MAF<br />
United States Marine Corps<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
March 30, 1948 to January 24, 1968<br />
ROBERT D NAWROCKI is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan35e.htm#L020">Panel 35E Line 025</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dn/NawrockiRD01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for Robert Nawrocki<br />
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<img alt="3mardiv.gif" border="0" height="100" src="http://www.virtualwall.org/u-pics/3mardiv.gif" title="3RD MARDIV" vspace="10" width="108" />"<br />
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<tr height="48"><td width="50%"><div class="leftcaption" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left;"> THE VIRTUAL WALL ®<br />
WWW.VIRTUALWALL.ORG<br />
</div></td><td width="50%"><div class="rightcaption" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: right;">PANEL 35E LINE 025<br />
PFC ROBERT D NAWROCKI<br />
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<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________________</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WILLIAM GEORGE NEWBOULD is honored on Panel 4W, Row 55 ofthe Vietnam Veterans </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: WILLIAM G NEWBOULD</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 8/15/1948 Date of Casualty: 3/17/1971</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: PFC</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: QUANG TRI</span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">William George Newbould<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Private First Class<br />
HHC, 1ST BN, 11TH INFANTRY, 5TH INF DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
August 15, 1948 to March 17, 1971<br />
WILLIAM G NEWBOULD is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan04w.htm#L050">Panel 04W Line 055</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/dn/NewbouldWG01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for William Newbould<br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">______________________</span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">WILLIAM LEE OWEN JR is honored on Panel 27W, Row 58 of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Wall Name: WILLIAM L OWEN JR </span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Date of Birth: 11/17/1944 Date of Casualty: 4/11/1969 Date of Death: 4/11/1969</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Home of Record: CHICAGO State: IL Branch of Service: ARMY Rank: 2LT</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Casualty Country: SOUTH VIETNAM Casualty Province: BINH DUONG</span></span><br />
</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">His tour began on Mar 24, 1969 Casualty was on Apr 11, 1969 In BINH DUONG, SOUTH VIETNAM HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTYGUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE Body was recovered </span></span><br />
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</div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=39044">http://www.vvmf.org//index.cfm?SectionID=110&Wall_Id_No=39044</a></span></span><br />
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<div class="title1" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 26px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">William Lee Owen, Jr<br />
</div><div class="text3" style="color: black; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;">Second Lieutenant<br />
HHC, 1ST BN, 18TH INFANTRY, 1ST INF DIV, USARV<br />
Army of the United States<br />
<a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/istate/istatil.htm#chicago">Chicago, Illinois</a><br />
November 17, 1944 to April 11, 1969<br />
WILLIAM L OWEN Jr is on the Wall at <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/ipanels/ipan27w.htm#L050">Panel 27W Line 058</a><br />
See the <a href="http://www.virtualwall.org/do/OwenWL01a.htm#" onclick="return showProfilePage();">full profile</a> for William Owen<br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-55449914968894959682010-01-08T06:17:00.000-08:002010-01-16T16:44:22.577-08:00The Empire of the United States in a decline<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">And Craig, let's not forget those nations who the United States aided and abetted in their efforts to cleanse some of these named and unnamed country s ills. The United States has a closet full of skeletons too Craig...and much the public is yet unaware of. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Let's pray that the next super power will not follow suit by establishing PEACE KEEPING bases in most, if not all countries in the world....that' means right here on our soil.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">"I suggest to you that The Empire of the United States is also in a decline and from within. Look to the Far East. That's where the next superior superpower is being nurtured.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Craig</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Every nation that has been the most powerful eventually declines. The Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Spanish, British, French, etc etc had their time at the top for a while, and then for a variety of reasons gave way to younger, more vibrant powers.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Our time will surely also come. And China and / or Japan appears to be the most likely country to take our mantle.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">It will likely be 20 to 50 years, though, before we are deposed as the world's most powerful country. China has a long way to go, and thankfully Japan has become a very peaceful democracy. And China, despite a horrible history, is evolving into a successful "capitalist roader" regime, with vibrant free enterprise hobbled by a geriatric political system.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">But all the America haters that long for the day when America is deposed should think twice. Professor R. J. Rummel of the U of Hawaii on his web page at <a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/</a> has documented the worst mass murderer nations. *He uses the term "democide*", which he defines as the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder. This definition excludes soldiers killing each other in combat or accidentally killing civilians when in accordance with the Geneva Convention. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Here are the 10 worst nations in the 20th century, with the numbers murdered rounded to the nearest million, up to 1987 (Rwanda, the Congo, Iran, and Iraq were trying hard to make the top 10 during the past 15 years, but we don't have a more recent count, and some of the top 10 (Vietnam, China) are likely slowly adding to their totals.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Nation <a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/">http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/ </a></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">USSR</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">China PRC</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Germany</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">China KMT </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Japan </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">China Mao </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Cambodia </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Turkey</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Vietnam</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Poland </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Note China made the top 3 different times </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Communist regimes were the top 6 out of 10 times. </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Also note that the charming regimes of Cambodia and Vietnam made the list. They are small countries, but they tried very hard.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Kudos to the "Ho Ho Ho Chi Min, NLF is sure to win" crowd. They can be proud of their success.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">_________________</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Sue B</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">In support of your view, perhaps it would be a good idea if you sent your son, or daughter to the 'hotbed' areas in order to secure your view. Germany, Japan and to a limited extent S. Korea were world wars. How do we justify the other areas we supposedly 'protect'? Lastly, if this country truly had 'The World's' best interest at heart, how come we haven't done 'Our Thing' by coming to the aid of Cambodia, the Sudan, the Congo and so forth?</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">It's one thing to view and nutshell the outside world in terms of friend, or foe, but what I find particularly annoying is the recent and steadily increasing (within the past 5 years) mindset of the 'Them and Us' categorization---liberals vs conservatives. We've always had a two party system. This is nothing new and suffice it to say, neither one is perfect, hence....imperfect people...imperfect world. There is enough blame to go around in both camps. Further, as much as I appreciate the freedoms (increasingly limiting as they are) we are fortunate to experience here in the West, the Democratic system of government is not without its corruption and sometimes narrowminded perspectives.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">I am neither conservative, nor liberal. Both terms are limiting in skope. It's bad enought our high school years were pervasive with a 'them' and 'us' mentality.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.5pt; border: none; mso-element: para-border-div; padding: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"> <div class="MsoPlainText" style="border: none; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in; padding: 0in;"><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Ken 67</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Susan,I am not a liberal or a conservative either. This is why it is so easy to see the liberal bias of most media's of the world and clearly see the Rush Limbaugh's of the world. It is very easy to take the stance that we should all be more caring and that killing people is wrong. This is ignoring evil as the poor Jewish people did when Hitler rounded them up and slaughtered them. They didn't fight back. The radical Muslims (not all Muslims) would do the same thing if given a chance. They are evil. I fear people who refuse to see evil, they reject the concept of evil in the fear that they might have to judge someone. Judging someone as evil means you have to face the problem of removing them, dealing with them, yes even killing them. It is easier to deny the existence of the evil than it is to deal with it. Simplistic solutions, such as rejecting all violence, are seductive to undeveloped minds and altruistic religious people. It is disordered reasoning held out as some highly enlightened thinking. While I admire Dr. King, and Ghandi their strategy would have never worked with Hitler or the radical Muslims. Their philosophies do work in an ordered society, evil is not ordered. People fanatically espousing these tenants to others have chosen to close their mind to evil. The regression from true enlightenment to the illusion of nonviolent insight, in a sense is embracing evil, allowing it to rule you. Evil is not tolerant, you cannot reason with it. These people believe that saying someone is evil is prejudiced thinking.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">We must teach them not to be evil they will understand. In trying to be kind, unselfish, nonjudgmental one allows evil to become more powerful. One has to fight for good just as evil fights for evil. To do otherwise would be to accept evil, to tolerate it among us. In a sense to accept death over life because evil will kill you if given a chance.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Yes, we are the police of the world and as all police forces fighting crimes against humanity we make mistakes. It is entirely unfair that we are not getting more support from Europe and others in our efforts. One cannot naively assume we have anywhere near the same corruption as most other governments of the world. There are a few others that have as little corruption as the US but not many. Most are wildly more corrupt than our government.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">These are incredibly gray times, it is very difficult, if not impossible to find the true meaning of things. Both the right and the left have taken the easy way out. One does not have to think, worry, fret over the situation if one takes one of these positions.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">As far as my children are concerned, we have a voluntary military today. It is their choice whether to enlist or not. I have a deep respect for our sons and daughters serving in our military.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
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</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Best Regards,</span></span><o:p></o:p><br />
</div></span></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6735221482860261482.post-40639230162597463862010-01-08T06:16:00.000-08:002010-01-20T20:02:53.526-08:00Demonstrations and Protests - Civil Rights - Anti War<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Craig </span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Our American system of civil liberties allows people to demonstrate and protest for and against a variety of governmental policies. This is an excellent system - it permits people to make their views known, and try to change public opinion and governmental policy.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">The year after high school before I went into the Marine Corps I served for one year in the Prince of Peace Corps. We were working in the inner city of Norfolk, Virginia, a tough place. For the most part we just worked within the system. I did a little protest work though - a local hospital provided very poor service for the friday night massacre crowd. I took a local thug who was coughing up blood into the hospital - they provided very haphazard and negligent help - I fired them up and threatened a protest - they defended themselves, but did apologize and promised to improve service.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">I also organized a Boy Scout Troop. I filed to take them camping to the Dismal Swamp, a very dismal area south of Norfolk. The Scout Executive informed me that this was a white only camp - I said so ? - it was time to integrate it - He thought a while, and then said OK, so our little troop integrated the Dismal Swamp. We did not get any flack. </span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">When I was station in Yuma Arizona in 1967-68 the country was very worried about riots in the inner city. We were on call for San Francisco, and trained on how to handle riots. You could see our country was starting to become unglued - here we were preparing to go to war in Vietnam, and our country was so divided that we had to prepare for riots in our own country. Not very inspiring.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">While in OCS in Quantico Virginia three Officer Candidates and I went to a very large demonstration in Washington DC - this was in late 1968 or early 1969. We four big strong guys with very short hair did not fit in very well with the anti war crowd, but everyone was polite and good natured. The National Guard was there, but relaxed - looked like a good time.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">In Vietnam the civilians got mad at us several times - usually about a traffic accident where one of our trucks had hurt a civilian. We let the Vietnamese Police handle these incidents.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">After I was discharged I started College at the University of Illinois Chicago in 1971. About 30 people were enjoying the sun at an outdoor pavillion. Three peace demonstrators came into the pavilion followed by a news film crew. They three folks used a bull horn to advocate that all of us march on City Hall to protest the war. We all ignored them but enjoyed the fuss.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One older guy with a red beard heckled the peace protesters. I suppose he was a Vet, but did not know for sure. The Peacenik jumped up and hit the older bearded guy - pretty funny, but not very peaceful. Then they left the area followed by the camera crews.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">On the news that night the camera crew made it look like a big demonstration - it was three people.</span></span><br />
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</div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">One of my favorite freshman classes was political science taught by Alderman / Professor Dick Simpson. We conducted a political convention with about 350 class participants. As you can imagine, virtually all the students supported getting out of Vietnam immediately. I supported staying in - I stated that too many Vietnamese, Laotions, and Cambodians would be killed if we ran. I wore my cammy jacket to make my speach. Not well received - I think my proposed plank lost about 350 to 2.</span></span><br />
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</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com